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The Covid Zoom Boom Is Reshaping Sign Language

scientificamerican.com

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Re: The Covid Zoom Boom Is Reshaping Sign Language

#121

Post by kevincox »

sneak wrote: post #16

Does anyone know of a good web based videoconferencing system that does 1080p or 4K, at close to 30fps? Ideally it wouldn't require some big subscription plan, either. Meet maxes out at 720p (it's that or 320p) and what seems like a single-digit frame rate. Zoom doesn't seem much better. I don't know sign language but I have a lot of bandwidth (and am wired) and I'm tired of calls optimized for 1-5mbps wifi. Even cal…

Jitsi can support 1080p at 30fps, I'm not sure if it goes higher. However you may need to host your own as meet.jit.si has some quality restrictions (although it is pretty good looking for general use). Also note that most laptops only come with a shitty 720p webcam so unless you have a nice camera you won't see much improvement.

Re: The Covid Zoom Boom Is Reshaping Sign Language

#122

Post by _nalply »

tyingq wrote: post #92
mabbo wrote: post #3

Two quick misconceptions to call out for those less familiar with signed languages: 1. ASL is not just English with each word replaced with a sign. It's an incredibly complex language with different grammatical rules, some of which don't have English equivalents. 2. It's incredibly flexible. Many core grammar components will remain consistent, but often if you drive to another city, many words/signs will be different…

I'd add in a third bullet noting that sign languages generally favor omitting unnecessary grammar, structure, etc. Like "I love you" as [love sign] -> [point at person you love]. Or for example that "very" might exist in a signed language, but isn't often used. Just substituted with a more physically animated/vigorous version of the adjective, or added facial expression.

The thing of omitting grammar: That's simply not true, I am sorry.

Signed languages have a complex visual grammar. Words are inflected in many ways. I am a somewhat native speaker of the local signed language, and I sometimes discover that I uttered something I couldn't translate into German (the local oral language) without losing some meaning. This usually concerns dynamics, location and emotion. One example, I explained my son how to use the chairlift and how the chairlift will take off.

Linguists have discovered that this is not pantomime. I forgot how they named the complicated movements but I remember it is something like a cluster of micro utterances.

Your example of «I love you» is an example of inflection. You can vary this sign, to indicate a special dynamic, for example «for a long time», «slowly increasing in intensity», «and you, too, sincerely and deeply», and many others.

Re: The Covid Zoom Boom Is Reshaping Sign Language

#123

Post by _nalply »

mabbo wrote: post #106
jeffwass wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in the UK and we have BSL (British Sign Language). It’s absolutely bonkers that two fairly different sign languages exist for the same base spoken language. That said, BSL uses a lot of facial cues, not just hands and arms, to allow for a range expression. Eg puffing out your cheeks to accentuate certain words.

> It’s absolutely bonkers that two fairly different sign languages exist for the same base spoken language Historically speaking, it's because of British snobbery, allegedly. This is how my ASL professor told us it at least. American Thomas Gallaudet went to the British school for the Deaf hoping to learn BSL, etc. But it was not long after the American Revolution and the British weren't very friendly and wouldn't he…

Thomas Gallaudet was accompanied by a French Deaf person, Laurent Clerc, who later died in Washington DC.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laurent_Clerc

Re: The Covid Zoom Boom Is Reshaping Sign Language

#124

Post by _nalply »

iav wrote: post #48

The best part of Zoom for deaf people is the automatic captioning. There is one big downside of using generic video chat for signing - it’s usually optimized for clear audio, not clear video. When the connection gets weak, Zoom will drop frames but try to preserve audio. For the deaf, dropping audio is of course not a problem but dropping frames means they miss a key word in the sentence.

There are other problems with video for hearing people.

One example is WhatsApp providing an audio record button in the lower right corner of the screen. I always keep hitting the button by mistake. If I had a user script I would remove that button.

Another one is recording videos. If there were an embarrasing noise like a fart I would be obliviously send the video to someone hearing.

Re: The Covid Zoom Boom Is Reshaping Sign Language

#127

Post by 908B64B197 »

bluGill wrote: post #52
gnuvince wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't know much of anything about ASL, but seeing David Cowan at some press conferences in Georgia made me a bit curious. There's a nice video of him on Youtube[1] where he explains that deaf people's native language is ASL, and not English. That was absolutely flabbergasting to me, because I had always imagine, like you said, that it was just "do this gesture to mean this word and this gesture for this other word…

It is more complex than that. ASL comes from french sign language, and so was always different from British sign language, and I suspect the grammar roots make sense in french. However since then things have diverged to the point that you can't really say there is anything in common with french sign language. Sign language only has a few (thousands) of signs. For the rest the signer finger spells the word they need,…

> I know of a novice who needed to talk about a person named Ryan, so they gave Ryan a sign - not realizing that sign was already used for retard.

Plausible deniability here.

Re: The Covid Zoom Boom Is Reshaping Sign Language

#128

Post by Wohlf »

flerchin wrote: post #27
jamesdwilson wrote: post #15

Curious about statistics, what percent of people speak sign language?

Roughly 10% of Americans are hard of hearing. Unfortunately far fewer have learned sign language.

I assume that's because the majority of them are elderly, and have no desire to learn it.

Re: The Covid Zoom Boom Is Reshaping Sign Language

#129

Post by cowboysauce »

jeffwass wrote: post #91
mabbo wrote: post #3

Two quick misconceptions to call out for those less familiar with signed languages: 1. ASL is not just English with each word replaced with a sign. It's an incredibly complex language with different grammatical rules, some of which don't have English equivalents. 2. It's incredibly flexible. Many core grammar components will remain consistent, but often if you drive to another city, many words/signs will be different…

I live in the UK and we have BSL (British Sign Language). It’s absolutely bonkers that two fairly different sign languages exist for the same base spoken language. That said, BSL uses a lot of facial cues, not just hands and arms, to allow for a range expression. Eg puffing out your cheeks to accentuate certain words.

> It’s absolutely bonkers that two fairly different sign languages exist for the same base spoken language.

Sign languages are not based off of spoken languages. Sign languages are languages with their own grammar and vocabulary. They are not a method of encoding spoken language like writing is. The history of Nicaraguan Sign Language is a great example of this. In the 70s the government of Nicaragua set up a school for the deaf focused on teaching its students to fingerspell Spanish. Instead, the students spontaneously created their own sign language.

Re: The Covid Zoom Boom Is Reshaping Sign Language

#130

Post by pbhjpbhj »

sandworm101 wrote: post #45
pbhjpbhj wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure on the "very specific" part. We use some general, non-specific signs ("OK", "good" [thumbs up, depending on your cultural background and situation]). We, the hearing community in my country (UK), use gestures too of course. Could you give a few examples of signs hearing people use where you are that you consider "very specific"?

>>> where you are that you consider "very specific"? Flipping the bird. Pointing at things. Hand signals when driving (more a thing for motorcyclists). Then there are plenty of job-specific things. Crane operators have their own system of very specific hand gestures for directing crane operations. The military has a host of standardized gestures. DJs/audio techs/musicians have a set for talking in loud environments.…

Cool, thanks.

I don't think "flipping the bird" is specific, it's either "I'm a jerk" or "I'm angry [with you]" but they both seem pretty wide ranging.

Pointing is really none specific, do you want it, want to look at it, want someone else to hold it, etc..

Military and crane operator signs seem like they're limited sign languages. Excellent example.

Driving is a good one, but it's 3 specific signs, and then pointing. I'm often annoyed that other drivers don't know BSL!

Thanks for illustrating the point, very helpful.

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