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Demoted

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Re: Demoted

#41

Post by meric »

Tiomaidh wrote: post #23
bane wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It almost sounds like your conjecture is that, in the long run, Apple is destined to lose this.

If Google wins, hardware will be secondary, and Apple--that thrives on selling hardware--will decline. And it's possible that that will happen...it's also possible that it won't. Apple isn't destined to lose anything. It's just that they have the potential to lose much more than Google does--even if everyone uses Apple hardware, Google can still serve ads to a certain extent.

If Google wins, Apple can still sell commoditized hardware to a certain extent.

Re: Demoted

#42

Post by napierzaza »

click170 wrote: post #35
napierzaza wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a very narrow understanding about what businesses do. They don't think of things that lock in users. They think of features that people will want to use. Solutions to peoples problems, even ones they didn't know they had. So if you're good enough at that, people have trouble giving up your platform or service. Calling it lock in is just good features and service in a negative light. "Oh, Apple does great to r…

I think one of the biggest reasons your being down-voted is because your confusing the act of creating solutions to problems with what lock-in actually is. Arguments can be made that because it costs more to switch from one platform to another, that is lock-in. IMO though, lock-in specifically refers to acts where a company intentionally tries to prevent people from moving away from their product or platform, most of…

All the features Apple announced today are features that people have been demanding from Apple and any other vendor. What's the lock in?

Putting DRM on music so you can only play it on iPod is lock in.

Though I agree Apple is integrating services into iOS that are only available to iOS.So I imagine that gives them lock in.

I don't want to start trying to guess as Apple's motivations, but I don't see them coming out with demanded features as intentional lock in as it appears to be their solution to the problem.

Re: Demoted

#43

Post by napierzaza »

ChrisLTD wrote: post #24
napierzaza wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a very narrow understanding about what businesses do. They don't think of things that lock in users. They think of features that people will want to use. Solutions to peoples problems, even ones they didn't know they had. So if you're good enough at that, people have trouble giving up your platform or service. Calling it lock in is just good features and service in a negative light. "Oh, Apple does great to r…

Sure, thinking of good features is the first step. But then isn't the next step figuring out how to make money?

If you have all the features you make the money on the hardware with the features. But describing things as only "lock in" is pretty meaningless as a comment. It implies that all it's doing is increasing switching costs and not actually offering anything to the user.

But it would only increase switching costs in the event that it WAS an attractive feature. Features that are not useful or interesting to users aren't going to affect switching costs, or lock in.

Re: Demoted

#44

Post by Alterlife »

"Google’s frame is the browser window. Apple’s frame is the screen."

I don't think it's going to matter. Google is putting a lot of work into 'promoting' the browser frame to the whole screen.

Re: Demoted

#45

Post by napierzaza »

c0riander wrote: post #29
napierzaza wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a very narrow understanding about what businesses do. They don't think of things that lock in users. They think of features that people will want to use. Solutions to peoples problems, even ones they didn't know they had. So if you're good enough at that, people have trouble giving up your platform or service. Calling it lock in is just good features and service in a negative light. "Oh, Apple does great to r…

Creating switching costs is in fact a regular market strategy and is certainly more than just doing something so well that people will have trouble giving it up. Facebook has switching costs because all your friends are on it, not on another network, plus you'd have to learn a whole new set of privacy settings, right? The Kindle has switching costs because all your books are in your Kindle library and you can't trans…

There will always be a switching cost, even just remembering a new URL.

Surely companies do things to make the switching cost higher. Like as you said, locking ebooks to a particular device.

But creating a service or feature that is only on your platform just means you're doing something no one else is doing; making you more attractive to consumers (and creating a higher switching cost).

Re: Demoted

#46

Post by jarin »

51Cards wrote: post #25

"Google’s frame is the browser window. Apple’s frame is the screen." So by extension Google's applications are more cross platform, and Apple's aren't?

In theory this is restrictive and bad, but when every platform you want to use is Apple's it's a different story.

When Apple stops making what I consider to be the best computers, the best phones, the best tablets, and the best way to monetize my coding skills, then I'll probably be just as upset as all of the "openness" advocates.

Re: Demoted

#47

Post by joev »

tedunangst wrote: post #28
ChrisLTD wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. A lot of Apple's big announcements today were about features that create lock-in. Your music is tied to a $25 iTunes subscriptions; your reading list, email, calendar, to do list, and office documents are tied to iCloud; they even want your text messaging tied to your iOS devices. Then there's all those apps you bought on the Mac and iOS App Stores that you'll never be able to transfer to another system. If…

Are your reading list, email, calendar, to do list, and office documents not tied to the google cloud? If you use enough of them, isn't switching to yahoo/msn/apple going to be a nightmare? There doesn't appear to be much difference to me. Also, minor point, your music is not tied to a subscription. The syncing is. Cancel the subscription, keep the files.

The Data Liberation project is at least a token attempt to ward off accusations of Google lock-in:

http://www.dataliberation.org/

Re: Demoted

#48

Post by zipdog »

kenjackson wrote: post #7

Gruber is repeating the obvious, but in a convoluted way. Apple is about selling HW. Google is about selling ads. That's it. Everything else falls from that. Google's goal is to commodotize HW, and I this is, at least theoretically, doable. Apple can't really commodotize ads, at least in no way I can think of.

Except that ads are not a core aspect of anything. Businesses don't need (many) ads if they can get targetted access to customers through other means (ie Facebook, Groupon). Applications don't need ads if they can get funding from other means (ie micropayments, app store dollars), and customers don't need ads, especially if they can become aware of interesting products in other ways (forums for the like-minded, such as reddit). Ads in the way that Google is selling them may be a declining market to dominate.

Re: Demoted

#49

Post by mhansen »

tedunangst wrote: post #28
ChrisLTD wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. A lot of Apple's big announcements today were about features that create lock-in. Your music is tied to a $25 iTunes subscriptions; your reading list, email, calendar, to do list, and office documents are tied to iCloud; they even want your text messaging tied to your iOS devices. Then there's all those apps you bought on the Mac and iOS App Stores that you'll never be able to transfer to another system. If…

Are your reading list, email, calendar, to do list, and office documents not tied to the google cloud? If you use enough of them, isn't switching to yahoo/msn/apple going to be a nightmare? There doesn't appear to be much difference to me. Also, minor point, your music is not tied to a subscription. The syncing is. Cancel the subscription, keep the files.

All those things you mention are exportable, and yahoo/msn/apple could write an importer against these APIs to make it easy.

Re: Demoted

#50

Post by click170 »

napierzaza wrote: post #42
click170 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think one of the biggest reasons your being down-voted is because your confusing the act of creating solutions to problems with what lock-in actually is. Arguments can be made that because it costs more to switch from one platform to another, that is lock-in. IMO though, lock-in specifically refers to acts where a company intentionally tries to prevent people from moving away from their product or platform, most of…

All the features Apple announced today are features that people have been demanding from Apple and any other vendor. What's the lock in? Putting DRM on music so you can only play it on iPod is lock in. Though I agree Apple is integrating services into iOS that are only available to iOS.So I imagine that gives them lock in. I don't want to start trying to guess as Apple's motivations, but I don't see them coming out w…

>> What's the lock in?

I never said there was lock-in with this new update, I was pointing out what I perceived to be one of the biggest reasons your comment was down-voted.

From the brief bits and pieces I've read about this, I've heard of nothing so far that smells like lock-in. And I'm by no stretch an Apple fanboy either.

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