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The Art of Reading More Effectively and Efficiently

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Re: The Art of Reading More Effectively and Efficiently

#101

Post by jasonv »

dawg- wrote: post #26

I have noticed an interesting trend in our discourse about reading lately - there seems to be more and more moralizing and virtue signaling. So much self-help and "motivation porn" focuses on reading books, as if it's a magical activity that will unlock the best version of oneself. It's part of the new aspirational message - imagine yourself rich, happy, driving a Lamborghini, living off dividends from your stonks, a…

I agree and disagree, and disagree because in the world we live in, we read more words than ever, but reading books -- things that people craft over time, sometimes with facts and references, and that are stable enough elements in the world that we can have long, thoughtful, referenced reviews and discussions about -- probably less so than in the past.

We don't "review" and discuss blog posts for years on end, the way you can read and discuss books, and books from other countries, in other languages, from previous centuries.

I joke that most parties devolve into a discussion about "what have you watched lately?" and where that discussion used to include movies and films, people at parties mostly talk about TV shows.

So books, for those who are still fitting them into their lifestyle, even after work and family and internet, are slightly more rarefied than they used to be. Moreso than we probably need.

Re: The Art of Reading More Effectively and Efficiently

#102

Post by a9h74j »

Bakary wrote: post #55

I really don't see the point of all that productivity in every facet of life. It sounds like cargo-culting to me. Generally, people who do fascinating things don't need to analyze their own productivity since they are naturally drawn to their projects and work on them on their own and for their own sake. People who do things out of ambition don't need the boost either, by definition. And for people who just want to e…

As you suggest, there is something so transparently ironic or off about his path in particular. For me his videos were part of a quick off-ramp from the productivity porn.

In the irony department, I am reminded of a woman who once billed herself as the smartest person alive or something. My thought was: You are the smartest person alive, and you are writing articles for the Sunday supplement in my local newspaper?

Re: The Art of Reading More Effectively and Efficiently

#103

Post by [deleted] »

j7ake wrote: post #37
dawg- wrote: post #26

I have noticed an interesting trend in our discourse about reading lately - there seems to be more and more moralizing and virtue signaling. So much self-help and "motivation porn" focuses on reading books, as if it's a magical activity that will unlock the best version of oneself. It's part of the new aspirational message - imagine yourself rich, happy, driving a Lamborghini, living off dividends from your stonks, a…

The worst is some arbitrary goal of reading X books per year. That clearly optimises for short, easy to read books (eg New York Times Best Sellers) and avoids more technical and difficult books (eg Art of Computer Programming)

[deleted]

Re: The Art of Reading More Effectively and Efficiently

#104

Post by TeaDrunk »

leesalminen wrote: post #9
cinntaile wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So your argument to dismiss this blogpost is guilt by association, am I understanding you correctly?

Yes, this is the current flavor of the month to show off one’s level of internet outrage. See: Scott Alexander / Astral Codex Ten. It’s funny, I’d never heard of Scott before the HN outrage. I’m now a paying subscriber and have been enjoying his writing.

I've also enjoyed his writing but I can most certainly see his biases. He has a peculiar way of thoroughly researching some assumptions but then apparently having a complete blindspot to others, which is only made more apparently by how critically thinking all his posts are. I guess that's most people, though, they just rarely do so with the precision and eloquence of scott.

Re: The Art of Reading More Effectively and Efficiently

#105

Post by siltpotato »

algebrazebra wrote: post #95
ohduran wrote: post #27

I have a contrarian view about reading productively, which is: READ WHAT OTHERS AREN'T READING. It's as if there is a similar process as the Efficient Market Hypothesis happening with books: the best-sellers define our shared reality, and apparently (at least for me), they aren't worth reading. For example, think of Outliers, by Malcom Gladwell. Virtually everyone has heard of the 10'000 hour rule. That means that th…

Yes, the 10,000 hour rule is known by many. For the lack of a better term, the "10,000 hour rule" is a label for an idea. And this idea is as misunderstood as it is popular. Simply spending X hours of time on a skill does not an expert make; indeed, Malcolm Gladwell specifies that these 10,000 hours need to be spent as what he calls "deliberate practice".

And on that note, if you read that thing that everyone else reads (or claims to read), then you'll ensure you don't have the popular misconception of that book.

Something something "the most effective debugging tool is still careful thought..."

Re: The Art of Reading More Effectively and Efficiently

#107

Post by [deleted] »

jk7tarYZAQNpTQa wrote: post #59
tharkun__ wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kayaking at least (not sure how much concentration pottery needs) would give you a _lot_ of time to just stare at the beauty of nature and think. Now this may or may not result in anything, but if you are reasonably intelligent and trying to improve yourself but you are lacking the 'downtime' to just let your mind wander then kayaking might do the trick for you. Best combined with a good book for when you're in camp,…

I dearly love both sports and reading, but they are very different activities that give you happiness in very different ways. Kayaking won't teach you quantum mechanics or ancient Greek history. So from a certain knowledge-adquisition point of view, pottery and kayaking are way less efficient, if not a waste of time. Just like reading is a waste of time from the physical happiness POV. As with most things in life, a…

[deleted]

Re: The Art of Reading More Effectively and Efficiently

#108

Post by nwienert »

Ma8ee wrote: post #91
gen_greyface wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doing pottery and kayaking is a better choice for me than reading someone do pottery and kayaking. Edit: and not everything can be learnt from books

But I can’t lead armies in battles or travel under the sea or challenge a rival to a swords duel. In such cases I’m accepting the reading as substitute.

Sports are often pretty close to battle, and you can learn fencing. Most great writers about swordsmanship could never have written about it without having used them for years...

I have a whole long piece I want to write about this some day but physical experience is about 100x richer than reading. If you read about the best restaurant in some place, and tell me it, your ability to convince me it’s good is very weak. Whereas someone who ate at a hundred places in that cuisine could write a book about it. They could convince me only because they have first hand knowledge.

It’s funny in that way: the best writing comes from people who experienced the most, and yet people get attached to reading as the best way to learn!

Re: The Art of Reading More Effectively and Efficiently

#109

Post by jodrellblank »

tines wrote: post #80
dawg- wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just to be clear, I agree with you 100% that accessing other people's best thoughts through reading is very valuable and very awesome. On the other hand, you don't need a thousand other lives to live one good one. As Thoreau wrote, "It takes more than one day to extract the wealth of a day." And as a Buddhist saying goes, "You can learn everything about the entire universe from the head of a pin".

> You can learn everything about the entire universe from the head of a pin This is just not true haha.

It isn't true that a reader lives a thousand lives, either, they live one life, and it includes reading, but you weren't nitpicking over that distinction.

Re: The Art of Reading More Effectively and Efficiently

#110

Post by ravitation »

tines wrote: post #33
dawg- wrote: post #26

I have noticed an interesting trend in our discourse about reading lately - there seems to be more and more moralizing and virtue signaling. So much self-help and "motivation porn" focuses on reading books, as if it's a magical activity that will unlock the best version of oneself. It's part of the new aspirational message - imagine yourself rich, happy, driving a Lamborghini, living off dividends from your stonks, a…

> But ultimately you could learn just as much about yourself and the world by doing pottery, woodworking, kayaking, knitting or whatever else you like to do with your spare time. I agree with the rest of your post, but this sentence is a hard disagree. Books let you live a version of the lives of other more intelligent people from almost any point in history. How can pottery and kayaking do that?

What I think is somewhat interesting, is that there are numerous pieces of his/her comment, like the piece you quoted, that essentially imply the need for articles like the one posted here.

The idea that you can "learn just as much about [...] the world" from things other than what, until very recently, has been the primary mode of inter-generational human communication is pure absurdity. An idea whose absurdity is illustrated by all of human history. The fact that this requires explanation or demonstration is the reason that the current "trend" of elevating reading to a "rare alchemy" exists, because it essentially is if you're coming from a place of treating all activities as equal methods of learning.

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