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Facebook is pushing back on Apple’s new iPhone privacy rules

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Re: Facebook is pushing back on Apple’s new iPhone privacy rules

#401

Post by rchaud »

LocalH wrote: post #26
yawaworht1978 wrote: post #11

Apple should be applauded for this. Their revenue does not depend on software to clandestinely steal and sell users data. One day, we will look back at history and see facebook similar as to how people view myspace now (junkyard of software). Good on Apple not selling devices with a facebook backdoor in them. I know apple probably has deals with malicious governments regarding data access, but at least they are stand…

A lot of people would rather have Myspace be the dominant social network it once was.

If it was dominant, the ads would come sooner or later. MySpace is only thought of sympathetically today because News Corp acquired it early and let it rot. Facebook didn't start out with ads, it introduced them in 2008 or later. By that time MySpace was well into its death throes.

Re: Facebook is pushing back on Apple’s new iPhone privacy rules

#402

Post by judge2020 »

zarq wrote: post #390
tcoff91 wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apps cannot use the microphone on iOS 14 without your awareness. There is a little dot that will show up at the top of the screen if an app has recently used microphone or camera. Hopefully this can assuage your paranoia.

The dot seems to not be interactive, i.e. I won't be able to find out which app it was, and what it did. But it's a start!

Open control center. At the top it'll say what app was using the mic or video.

https://i.judge.sh/frank/Derpy/chrome_0aklMR0vP4.png

https://i.judge.sh/careless/Flutter/chrome_Vm3HAfRnaQ.png

Re: Facebook is pushing back on Apple’s new iPhone privacy rules

#403

Post by e40 »

coldpie wrote: post #31
yawaworht1978 wrote: post #11

Apple should be applauded for this. Their revenue does not depend on software to clandestinely steal and sell users data. One day, we will look back at history and see facebook similar as to how people view myspace now (junkyard of software). Good on Apple not selling devices with a facebook backdoor in them. I know apple probably has deals with malicious governments regarding data access, but at least they are stand…

Between this privacy fight and the form factor of the iPhone Mini, there's a 90% chance my next phone will be an iPhone after more than a decade on Android. I'm done with this ad-sponsored trash ecosystem.

I moved to iOS for the specific reason of getting the Apple watch because of some heart issues I was having. Did it a year ago. I wasn't thrilled, but I was sick of the Android adware/malware problem (every time I installed an ad-supported app I got malware within a week or two).

How do I feel now? I absolutely love this ecosystem. I don't fear OS updates like I used to with Android. I don't fear my device will be stranded without updates. The UI is clean. The 11 is as fast today as when I got it. It seamlessly works the watch and my Bose headphones. BT was always finicky with the Android phones I had.

And there's the privacy angle.

Re: Facebook is pushing back on Apple’s new iPhone privacy rules

#404

Post by sjg007 »

pmontra wrote: post #124
darksaints wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple taking on this issue is worthy of respect, but let's not pretend that Apple respects all user consent. They're constantly forcing things on their users with thinly veiled justifications like "security".

I wonder if Apple is in a sort of competition with Facebook. Probably they are competing for engineers, Messenger / WhatsApp vs iMessage, time spent on Facebook content vs on Apple content and other things I'm missing. On the other side they benefitted from the popularity of Facebook (and many other internet properties companies) because they gave an extra reason to people to buy smartphones and using them a lot.

Apple could do a privacy focused social network if they wanted to. It won't look like a social network at first whatever it is.

Re: Facebook is pushing back on Apple’s new iPhone privacy rules

#405

Post by lexicality »

Nextgrid wrote: post #119
antattack wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple just wants to be exclusive gateway to Apple customers. We are a product to both companies, even if Apple appears the lesser evil.

Apple's incentives appear aligned with their customers. Facebook's are completely opposed.

Apple makes money by you being trapped in the Apple ecosystem.

Everything in it is structured around forcing you to pay Apple for access to things you want. Microtransactions, apps etc. All of it must go through Apple and they must have a cut of everything.

You can say they're more honest because they're taking your money up front as opposed to facebook selling you to advertisers, but I don't think it's in Apple's customers' best interests to be milked like cows

Re: Facebook is pushing back on Apple’s new iPhone privacy rules

#406

Post by tailrecursion »

My guess is over time most free apps that depend on tracking will refuse to work unless allowed to track. And most users will acquiesce, just so they can use an app that they want to use.

Even the Facebook app itself could refuse to work unless tracking is turned on.

It's still a positive change overall, and still affects Facebook but it appears to me the effect will be minor, even temporary.

Re: Facebook is pushing back on Apple’s new iPhone privacy rules

#407

Post by squarefoot »

mokus wrote: post #3

The fact that Facebook appears to consider user consent an existential threat to their business model tells me everything I need to know about them right now.

This, and the fact that (EFF and a few others aside) they're fought against only by an entity whose core business has nothing to do with mining users personal data, speaks loudly about pretty much every other corporation out there.

Do I qualify as too much alarmist when I'm horrified from seeing doctors and lawyers happily exchanging photos of clients sensitive documents using Whatsapp? (read: forgetting them in their phone gallery, ready to be exfiltrated by any malicious software or repair technician). The sad part is that people is slowly adapting to not give a damn about their and others privacy because today's electronic gadgets and services are designed in a way so they're almost unusable by privacy conscious users.

Re: Facebook is pushing back on Apple’s new iPhone privacy rules

#408

Post by technofiend »

ryandrake wrote: post #225
Waterluvian wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure "Cigarettes will kill you" was ever meant to stop smokers from smoking. It was part of a generations long campaign to change the entire perception and culture behind smoking. And it seems to be working very well. I think there are parallels here. I see a focus on getting _current_ users to stop tolerating naked privacy. I think that ship has sailed. But in time the entire culture can shift where future g…

I think people forget how ubiquitous smoking was. I remember back in the 80s, you basically couldn't go anywhere without ending up stinking like an ashtray. And it was even worse decades earlier before I was born. Everyone bellyached as anti-smoking laws kicked in, but slowly, attitudes changed, and now, it's not such a big deal. I bet if you got rid of anti-smoking laws, you wouldn't even see a huge uptake in public…

It's probably hard to fathom now but while working at Chevron in 1990 / 1991 the two smokers in my group got their own office so no one else had to share with them while they smoked at their respective desks. Thankfully they kept the door closed, but any time you had to go in there everything - the walls, the ceiling, their keyboards and monitors, their books - everything had an odiferous brown patina. It was like walking into a bar. The fact that last comparison no longer really works tells me how much the world has changed for the better.

Re: Facebook is pushing back on Apple’s new iPhone privacy rules

#409

Post by judge2020 »

DataWorker wrote: post #358
czbond wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are right on - the fact that I even needed to think about whether I should have to be concerned with it is where I was headed. Devices do listen to all sounds to listen for their "prompt" - how do I know what is actually discarded? And with precedence, I don't think it is 'crazy'. Example: https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2018/05/25/614470096...

Anybody that doesn’t know the code their device is running is a fool to trust it by default. Even knowing the code well, devices are compromised all the time. Yours seems like the lone sane opinion here.

We don't know the code of HN but we trust it because we can see the inputs, outputs, and trust the admins running it. A lot of people trust Google/Apple for the same reason to keep their devices secure but are aware that they might need to stay up-to-date and give up freedom [to install unverified apps] to achieve that security.

Re: Facebook is pushing back on Apple’s new iPhone privacy rules

#410

Post by michaelbuckbee »

NoodleIncident wrote: post #400

> Some apps, like Facebook, allow for some data tracking to be manually disabled. But by default, it is turned on. That gives the company reams of personal data on who we are and what we are doing, which it then vacuums up, packages and sells. Facebook would be giving away money if they ever actually sold your data. As everyone here knows, they use that data to target the ads that they sell. Do journalists phrase it…

I think there's room to be charitable and that most people don't see a meaningful distinction between "sell ads based on your data" and "sell your data to people to use in ads".
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