Mars Is No Earth • Hacker News Board

Re: Mars Is No Earth

#31

Post by rotexo » Fri, Feb 26, 2021, 5:29 PM UTC

I like Kim Stanley Robinson’s take: that humanity’s off-planet presence will be like our presence in Antarctica. We will put a bunch of scientists there and continue to actively support them there, because self-sufficiency is unlikely in such a hostile environment. It is hard to imagine anything else in my children’s or grandchildren’s lifetimes.

All the arguments about colonization of other planets strike me as tautological. We should have people on other planets because it would be good to have people on other planets, or we shouldn’t because we don’t have people on other planets and we do have them on Earth. So people will argue, and each side will direct the resources they have to their side of the argument. Not sure what else there is to be said.

Re: Mars Is No Earth

#32

Post by bryanlarsen » Fri, Feb 26, 2021, 5:30 PM UTC

qayxc wrote: post #24

elsonrodriguez wrote: post #10

> Someone in his position could do so many things on our little blue dot itself to help those in need. The entire article boils down to this one tired old argument. And in the case of Musk, while Teslas don't help people in need directly, the adoption of electric cars and other electric transportation will help the entire world population by reducing air pollution and climate change. So, whynotboth.jpg.

> the adoption of electric cars and other electric transportation will help the entire world population by reducing air pollution and climate change. This one tired old argument again. While reducing air pollution is a plus (at least in city centres), electric cars are nothing but green washing. If you really are concerned about climate change and pollution, reduce the need for cars and own no car. Abandon Euclidian-…

The perfect is the enemy of the good. - Voltaire

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nirvana_fallacy

Re: Mars Is No Earth

#33

Post by tgvaughan » Fri, Feb 26, 2021, 5:31 PM UTC

netsec_burn wrote: post #4

Yet? It seems the writer is debating a view that Elon doesn't have. His goal is to begin the process of making Mars habitable, I'm not aware of anyone with the position that Mars is currently as nice as Earth. Terraforming Mars is a long term vision and not one we'll see in our lifetimes. If we don't take steps towards achieving that goal then of course it will always seem lofty. Martian greenhouses may sooner emulat…

> I'm not aware of anyone with the position that Mars is currently as nice as Earth.

Ann Clayborne?

Re: Mars Is No Earth

#34

Post by andrewfromx » Fri, Feb 26, 2021, 5:32 PM UTC

dehrmann wrote: post #28

andrewfromx wrote: post #18

just look at https://i.ytimg.com/vi/p5fdbowk7X8/maxresdefault.jpg yucatan peninsula crater photo and try and picture the Dinosaurs and that big boom, cloud of dust and it's like c'mon, no brainer. We need N planets not just 1 planet.

It might be easier to survive on earth engulfed in a dust cloud than Mars.

Touché. That's the best argument I've heard yet. Tsunamis too I guess. Everything that killed the Dinos we humans can protect against easier than living on mars?

Re: Mars Is No Earth

#35

Post by bryanlarsen » Fri, Feb 26, 2021, 5:33 PM UTC

c22 wrote: post #27

iab wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Extra-planetary colonization is so far-fetched given our impending climate crisis. We will struggle to adapt to the oncoming environmental changes in a planet that we have completely adapted do. The thought that leaving this custom bubble for one that is actively hostile, and thriving there, is a grand delusion. I admire the explorative & scientific nature of space missions, but I am also pro-reality.

I suspect the life-support technologies developed in the pursuit of Mars colonization will be extremely useful tools in the earthbound struggle for survival whether or not such colonies are actually successful.

Two examples already starting to become relevant, there will be more.

- ISRU fuel production on Mars is closely related to carbon neutral green fuel production on Earth. In other words, turning carbon dioxide into fuel.

- Agricultural production on Mars and vertical farming on Earth.

Re: Mars Is No Earth

#36

Post by josefresco » Fri, Feb 26, 2021, 5:34 PM UTC

rotexo wrote: post #31

I like Kim Stanley Robinson’s take: that humanity’s off-planet presence will be like our presence in Antarctica. We will put a bunch of scientists there and continue to actively support them there, because self-sufficiency is unlikely in such a hostile environment. It is hard to imagine anything else in my children’s or grandchildren’s lifetimes. All the arguments about colonization of other planets strike me as taut…

Having just finished a few of Robinson's books, your comment reminded me of (I believe) "Red Mars" in which there was a part where the first settlers returned to their camp from exploring Mars and remarked (rather sadly) how dirty and terrible looking their encampment was, in contrast with the beauty of unspoiled mars. They compared it to scientific outposts on Antarctica.

Re: Mars Is No Earth

#37

Post by frogpelt » Fri, Feb 26, 2021, 5:38 PM UTC

All it took for someone to write an article about what a terrible idea Mars is, was Elon Musk to promote it.

Re: Mars Is No Earth

#38

Post by Diederich » Fri, Feb 26, 2021, 5:39 PM UTC

> Someone in his position could do so many things on our little blue dot itself to help those in need.

Does accelerating the transition to renewable energy count? Of course, reasonable people can differ on how big a difference Tesla Motors has made, but it's undeniable that Musk took an enormous risk with a large chunk of his then available assets.

Re: Mars Is No Earth

#39

Post by zokier » Fri, Feb 26, 2021, 5:41 PM UTC

> Someone in his position could do so many things on our little blue dot itself to help those in need

So all the hand-wringing about the inhospitality of Mars is just fluff, this is really the gist of the article. The "fault" of Musk is not that he is pushing humans to Mars but that he is not "helping those in need", whatever that means.

Are people like Bezos, Ellison, Cook, Zuckerberg, Page, Brin etc (arguably group who are more in position to help) really "helping those in need" so much more that Musk deserves to be singled out, just because he doesn't use his wealth buying frivolous tropical islands but is executing his vision (misguided or not)?

Re: Mars Is No Earth

#40

Post by rotexo » Fri, Feb 26, 2021, 5:41 PM UTC

josefresco wrote: post #36

rotexo wrote: post #31

I like Kim Stanley Robinson’s take: that humanity’s off-planet presence will be like our presence in Antarctica. We will put a bunch of scientists there and continue to actively support them there, because self-sufficiency is unlikely in such a hostile environment. It is hard to imagine anything else in my children’s or grandchildren’s lifetimes. All the arguments about colonization of other planets strike me as taut…

Having just finished a few of Robinson's books, your comment reminded me of (I believe) "Red Mars" in which there was a part where the first settlers returned to their camp from exploring Mars and remarked (rather sadly) how dirty and terrible looking their encampment was, in contrast with the beauty of unspoiled mars. They compared it to scientific outposts on Antarctica.

Indeed! KSR has clearly had a change of thinking about terraforming since the Mars trilogy. I asked him about it at a reading he did from Red Moon, and he responded with the Antarctica analogy I described above.