Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Mars Is No Earth

theatlantic.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

11–20 of 106 posts

Re: Mars Is No Earth

#11

Post by elsonrodriguez »

Tiktaalik wrote: post #3

The myth of a wonderful terraformed Mars must be pushed as part of capitalist technosaviourism. If we recklessly consume Earth into dust that's actually ok because technology can save us as we simply load into rocket ships for a new life on the offworld colonies. If we accept the notion that actually there's only one Earth, that we already live on a paradise planet and that we must protect what we have then going han…

It is a very human thing to overcomplicate one of the most basic instincts of life into some abstract human social concept.

Re: Mars Is No Earth

#12

Post by LeifCarrotson »

fourseventy wrote: post #2

It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the de…

For others who didn't recognize this quote, it's from Theodore Roosevelt's speech "Citizenship in a Republic" from 1910; full text here:

https://www.theodorerooseveltcenter.org/Learn-About-TR/TR-En...

Re: Mars Is No Earth

#13

Post by staticman2 »

nickthemagicman wrote: post #9

If you think on a large scale, humanity has a limited number of years left until the heat death of the sun... so this planet..and us..arent going to be here forever. And that's if we don't nuke each other first. Humans are very minimally removed from violent monkeys evolutionarily. It's not far-fetched to imagine a nuclear war being started simply by an insult to a mentally unstable world leader. It took humans 100,0…

Your genes might compel you to try to leave the planet and keep mating after our sun dies, but our species will inevitably be dead once entropy kicks in at the heat death of the universe.

Ultimately we are going to go extinct and there is no point to the colonization scheme other than delusions of grandeur.

Re: Mars Is No Earth

#14

Post by sandworm101 »

>> Why does Elon Musk want to send humans to a hellhole planet?

Showmanship, and the inescapable realities of rocket science. The truth is that it is technologically easier to land on mars than the moon. The delta-V requirements are less because of aerobraking into the mars atmosphere. And you don't need to worry about restarting big landing engines in zero gravity. So it is easier to put an object to the surface of mars than to put something on the surface of the moon. Landing on Venus is off the table and everything else is too far away. Mars is therefore the easiest target for anyone wanting to make a show.

Imho we will have an easier time living on our moon or any number of asteroids. Even Mar's moons would probably be easier than getting back and forth from Mar's surface.

Re: Mars Is No Earth

#15

Post by Valgrim »

netsec_burn wrote: post #4

Yet? It seems the writer is debating a view that Elon doesn't have. His goal is to begin the process of making Mars habitable, I'm not aware of anyone with the position that Mars is currently as nice as Earth. Terraforming Mars is a long term vision and not one we'll see in our lifetimes. If we don't take steps towards achieving that goal then of course it will always seem lofty. Martian greenhouses may sooner emulat…

Personally, I'd like to see his enthusiasm more focused toward space megastructures, such as O'Neill Cylinders and Dyson Swarms. It seems to me that humanity would benefit a lot more from mastering industrial-scale manufacturing and construction in space than sticking ourselves in another large gravity well.

Re: Mars Is No Earth

#16

Post by nickthemagicman »

iab wrote: post #8
netsec_burn wrote: post #4

Yet? It seems the writer is debating a view that Elon doesn't have. His goal is to begin the process of making Mars habitable, I'm not aware of anyone with the position that Mars is currently as nice as Earth. Terraforming Mars is a long term vision and not one we'll see in our lifetimes. If we don't take steps towards achieving that goal then of course it will always seem lofty. Martian greenhouses may sooner emulat…

I take your point; I think maybe this line of discourse is to prevent the "savior" line of thinking, whereby all manner of ills will be addressed by technological advancement, and the day-to-day drudgery of improving our current situation is lessened. The aspirational nature of it is - of course - grand, but maybe a more inward, introspective, look at our current situation would be better in the long-term.

See I think exploring space IS understanding ourselves just like exploring our biology is.

We've been doing the "spiritualism self understanding" thing for 100,000 years and it's just let to wars, virgin sacrifices, and other dumb human outcomes.

It's not even clear what "understanding ourselves" means.

I'd argue that Science has led to more enlightenment and improvement of the human condition than spiritualism ever has.

Re: Mars Is No Earth

#17

Post by godshatter »

nickthemagicman wrote: post #9

If you think on a large scale, humanity has a limited number of years left until the heat death of the sun... so this planet..and us..arent going to be here forever. And that's if we don't nuke each other first. Humans are very minimally removed from violent monkeys evolutionarily. It's not far-fetched to imagine a nuclear war being started simply by an insult to a mentally unstable world leader. It took humans 100,0…

I think we'd be better off working incrementally on larger and more sophisticated space habitats. Work our way up to O'Neill cylinders and the like. Much easier to harden a space habitat against radiation and to provide air, water, and power to it than it is to terraform an entire planet. Still not easy, though.

Edit: Much easier to move out of the way when the Sun expands into a red giant, as well. Not that we have to worry about that for a while yet.

Re: Mars Is No Earth

#19

Post by apocalypstyx »

staticman2 wrote: post #13
nickthemagicman wrote: post #9

If you think on a large scale, humanity has a limited number of years left until the heat death of the sun... so this planet..and us..arent going to be here forever. And that's if we don't nuke each other first. Humans are very minimally removed from violent monkeys evolutionarily. It's not far-fetched to imagine a nuclear war being started simply by an insult to a mentally unstable world leader. It took humans 100,0…

Your genes might compel you to try to leave the planet and keep mating after our sun dies, but our species will inevitably be dead once entropy kicks in at the heat death of the universe. Ultimately we are going to go extinct and there is no point to the colonization scheme other than delusions of grandeur.

Well, to be fair, we're still within the margin of error for a Big Crunch or a Big Rip, as well. (Maybe we'll even get lucky and not get to see a Vacuum Decay coming.)

Re: Mars Is No Earth

#20

Post by vagrantJin »

iab wrote: post #5
Tiktaalik wrote: post #3

The myth of a wonderful terraformed Mars must be pushed as part of capitalist technosaviourism. If we recklessly consume Earth into dust that's actually ok because technology can save us as we simply load into rocket ships for a new life on the offworld colonies. If we accept the notion that actually there's only one Earth, that we already live on a paradise planet and that we must protect what we have then going han…

Extra-planetary colonization is so far-fetched given our impending climate crisis. We will struggle to adapt to the oncoming environmental changes in a planet that we have completely adapted do. The thought that leaving this custom bubble for one that is actively hostile, and thriving there, is a grand delusion. I admire the explorative & scientific nature of space missions, but I am also pro-reality.

Can you imagine going back 500 years and telling the Kings of the world in their courts - with a straight face- that man in the future will send humans to the moon. And he will get there, take pictures, ride around a moon buggy, and come back safe and sound.

Not only will you be drawn and quartered for blaspheming, some might just kill you out of pity. The poor mad thing.

Today a 7 year old can say that with as much non-chalance as you please. And yet - Mars is impossible. A delusion. Surely you jest.

Post reply on HN