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Why is the DOS path character "\"? (2005)

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Re: Why is the DOS path character "\"? (2005)

#131
post #73

Do you correct people when they say “back slash” when reading out a url? When it’s actually a forward slash? Is there a name for this phenomenon? Everyone knows it’s a slash except when its used for something computery. Then it somehow becomes a backslash.

I don't have an answer but it's exactly the same phenomenon as when people refer to '#' as a hash-tag.

I remember it being the number sign when first learning to type in school. I then heard it refered to as pound sign. And once I started into the dev world, it became the ubiqutous comment. Then my favorite became the shebang when paired with the friendly bang/exclamation/pling.

Re: Why is the DOS path character "\"? (2005)

#132
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, like io_uring which Linux got in 2019 and still doesn't cover everything yet (e.g. currently mkdirat() is being added). It also often falls back to a kernel-level thread pool, since many e.g. file systems don't implement async IO.

>since many e.g. file systems don't implement async IO If we're picking on Linux here we should also mention that this issue cannot exist on Windows because it doesn't support anything else besides NTFS and a couple of options dating back to the 18th century or so. Oh, and WinFS, of course, F being short for future which is like the horizon, or the communism, always out there just a month or two away.

They also have ReFS - new filesystem in NT Server.

Re: Why is the DOS path character "\"? (2005)

#133
post #82

Where it says FileName.Extension[,Version] MONITR.EXE,4 What was the version used for? Did it track the changes?

I don't know about DEC-20, but on VMS, changing a file makes a copy with a new version number: $ edit foo.txt ... Ctrl-Z $ dir foo.txt;1 $ edit foo.txt ... Ctrl-Z $ dir foo.txt;1 foo.txt;2 When you delete a file, you have to specify a version field (blank for latest): $ del foo.txt; $ dir foo.txt;1 IIRC, you can configure how many versions to keep.

The version number was used the same way in TOPS-20 (which I never used) and Tenex, its predecessor (which I did). Emacs still has a facility for numbering backup files in the same way.

Re: Why is the DOS path character "\"? (2005)

#134
>*nix defines hierarchical paths with a simple hierarchy rooted at "/" - in *nix's naming hierarchy, there's no way of differentiating between files and directories, etc (this isn't bad, btw, it just is).

I don't see the problem, but I guess it's just a personal preference.

Re: Why is the DOS path character "\"? (2005)

#135
post #7
post #3

One reason might be that DOS used the "/" character for options, whereas in other operating systems the "-" character is used.

I have a feeling that the "-" character for an option is a unix (multics) only thing. It is also worth looking at https://retrocomputing.stackexchange.com/questions/4695/slas... where there is some discussion of the history. Along with https://retrocomputing.stackexchange.com/questions/7030/why-... and https://retrocomputing.stackexchange.com/questions/4686/wher...

Multics inherited - as a switch character from the earlier MIT time-sharing system CTSS.

Re: Why is the DOS path character "\"? (2005)

#136
post #110
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn't / just cause confusion trying to delete a directory called /rf ?

There's no directory called /rf so the mistake can do no harm, as a good design should be.

Your comment is based on the premise that there is, in common use, a directory called “-rf” but not one called “/rf”? Why would the former be any less likely than the latter?

Re: Why is the DOS path character "\"? (2005)

#137
post #126

During the time DOS 2.0 was in development, I visited Microsoft with a group of colleagues. (We were touring computer manufactures both in Seattle and in Silicon Valley (where we visited Digital Research, Intel and many others—in those days it was comparatively easy to visit these enterprises for a tour.) We were at Microsoft quite some hours (and we seemed important enough to be fed lunch which consisted of very goo…

> If Microsoft had fixed the problem back then, then there would have been pressure for other operating system developers to also fix the problem. I don't know about all of the other reserved characters, but the colon is the path-separator character in classic Macintosh APIs and I doubt they would have ever been able to "fix" that. > To say ≈255 characters for a filename is long enough is just not being realistic the…

"I don't know about all of the other reserved characters, but the colon is the path-separator character in classic Macintosh APIs and I doubt they would have ever been able to "fix" that."

The fundamental issues is that users should be able to type any characters including colons that appear in day-to-day use, whether it be a book title, report name, movie title or whatever without ever having to worry about it.

The fact that they cannot do so and that they deliberately have to transcribe a name to another or shorten it to accommodate an operating system's limitations wastes time and leads to errors and confusion (anyone who has ever run an IT help desk in a large organization knows this).

I'm aware of the Win 10 'long paths' fix and I've also seen the registry patch which some suggest possibly fixes earlier versions of Win 10 (I've not tried the patch). That said, the filename length limitations remains a problem for two reasons - the filename is still too short and that many programs are likely to crash if filenames were to exceed 255 chr$ (as they'd be unaware of it). To overcome this, the operating system would have to also present a shortened 255-character filename to the program in the fashion it did back in the early days for programs that only understood 8 * 3 filenames. As I see it, it's only a halfhearted too-little-too-late tweak and the job needs to be done properly.

"My number one peeve for a long time was "Documents and Settings" instead of "Users" on Windows XP..."

This is still a problem, in fact it's a real pain. Right, D&S was a pain but so too is 'Users' and 'ProgramData', both should be completely movable even to the extent of having them work from a USB stick. Whenever I set up Windows it takes me days to configure my programs so as they dump their data/save files to specific locations on other drives (this makes transferring data to Linux etc. much easier and it's much safer too if files can be kept in locations where they aren't expected to be found). In fact, this should apply to all user info including users' program files. As I see it, these limitations are just bloody-mindedness on Microsoft's part (where the user isn't an administrator, the administrator would be able to still lock user directories and files to suit the local policy).

Yes, there was an excuse for the problem 20-30 years ago but not nowadays. Unfortunately, this is a 'mindset' problem of programmers. They're so used to acronyms and shortening things that they don't realize or care that ordinary users do not understand why they just cannot type anything as they did on typewriters (and something I've not yet mentioned: why they cannot type between already-typed lines or within margins, as the old-timers continually claim they once could do with ease but can no longer do so).

Re: Why is the DOS path character "\"? (2005)

#138
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't have an answer but it's exactly the same phenomenon as when people refer to '#' as a hash-tag.

I remember it being the number sign when first learning to type in school. I then heard it refered to as pound sign. And once I started into the dev world, it became the ubiqutous comment. Then my favorite became the shebang when paired with the friendly bang/exclamation/pling.

What you mean the octothorpe?!

There are many valid names and usages for this symbol: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_sign#Names_of_the_chara...

Re: Why is the DOS path character "\"? (2005)

#139
post #16
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never understood why Unix chose "-" for options. It creates unnecessary confusion. E.g. when deleting a directory called "-rf"

Technically deleting a directory is done with the rmdir command. But rm with flags is flexible enough that I've seen very few people use rmdir

I use it whenever I expect a directory to be empty and want an error if for whatever reason it isn't. It's a bit niche, but good to have in your toolbelt.

Re: Why is the DOS path character "\"? (2005)

#140
post #55

It bothered me as a kid that the (ROM) font used in DOS had different thickness for slash and backslash… it wasn’t just a mirrored glyph. https://int10h.org/oldschool-pc-fonts/fontlist/font?ibm_ega_...

Me too, particularly since some of my favorite programs (various DOS games, especially MegaZeux) used text mode for their graphics
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