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The Framework Laptop

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Re: The Framework Laptop

#931

Post by zepto »

rsj_hn wrote: post #741
zepto wrote: post #458

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the vast majority of users The vast majority of users don’t carry a bunch of dongles around. It’s just true. What are most people doing? Zoom, Excel, PowerPoint, Browser, Slack, etc.

There are dongles at home and dongles to carry. For home, I need a DVI adaptor that goes into a separately powered USB 3 hub so I can use a monitor, and I can plug my keyboard and mouse into that. I am not a fan of the extra wiring though, needing to power the hub takes up one more electrical outlet, but it's not mobile and I can hide it, so no biggie. But that means when I carry the laptop around I have to carry a d…

Sure - I’m not saying nobody needs dongles. I have several usb hubs and dongles attached to my desktop iMac.

I’m just saying that that simply isn’t true for most people.

Re: The Framework Laptop

#932

Post by jpetso »

Liskni_si wrote: post #888
jpetso wrote: post #833

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is what makes newer ThinkPad keyboard layouts great at least in terms of arrow keys - the useless icon keys from the GP's posted image are now PgUp/PgDown, meaning you can access at least two out of the four without annoying two-handed operation. Home/End can still be bound to arrow keys plus modifier, but even there it's nice to have a dedicated key available. Basically, full-size arrow keys are what really mak…

I actually use those "useless" keys (back/forward in the browser) more often than PgUp/PgDown, as I usually scroll using the touchpad. But it doesn't really matter, as long as the physical keys are there. They can be remapped.

Never said they were useless! I also use them all the time. There is, however, only space for two extra keys in the holes of the four-arrow layout.

Re: The Framework Laptop

#933

Post by bitwize »

LeifCarrotson wrote: post #572
nkrisc wrote: post #474

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For whatever reason, I've never used a laptop that wasn't a MacBook that has had a trackpad anywhere as amazing as what Apple has done. I don't know if the problem is hardware, software, or both, but as a consumer I don't care. I'll never buy a non-Apple laptop until I can find one that has a trackpad as good or better. That's my personal requirement. On a personal laptop I always use the trackpad so I want it to be…

I care a lot too - but I care about a lot of other features, too, and refuse to buy Apple. My conclusion was to disable the trackpad and always carry an external mouse. I do a lot of CAD work and there's nothing that compares to a real mouse for speed and precision. I'll use my Trackpoint nib in a pinch, but the trackpad ecosystem is so bad that I just write it off entirely. Yeah, keeping a mouse on hand is annoying,…

Apple users buy Apple trackpads for their desktop. The Apple trackpad experience is better than a typical mouse, even when it comes to speed and precision.

That's what happens when you're the most successful technology company in the world, and you hire the best engineers in the world and laser-focus them on thr user experience.

Re: The Framework Laptop

#934

Post by bitwize »

ngc248 wrote: post #818
philistine wrote: post #770

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple had the best trackpads in the industry before they made the iPhone. That company just values good laptop design; after all, they invented it.

They invented what? laptops?

They invented good laptop design. Up until 2011, most laptops were shitty clones of the PowerBook Duo in terms of design. After 2011, most laptops became shitty clones of the MacBook Air.

Re: The Framework Laptop

#935

Post by philistine »

ngc248 wrote: post #818
philistine wrote: post #770

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple had the best trackpads in the industry before they made the iPhone. That company just values good laptop design; after all, they invented it.

They invented what? laptops?

Yup. The Powerbook 100 series is the first laptop with the classic clamshell design we all know.

Re: The Framework Laptop

#936

Post by spijdar »

fsflover wrote: post #908
samatman wrote: post #529

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Drive by suggestion here. I think you should offer a first-class Linux experience with this laptop. It's a genuinely underserved market, with a lot of overlap for people who care about the repairability and upgradability which are core to your offering. A market with premium mind share, as well. When I say first class, I mean something specific: you should spend some of your engineering budget making a really good dr…

> There are a bunch of developers who have stuck with the Mac for essentially one reason, the touchpad. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24700537 > Obviously you can't offer just Linux Yes, you can: https://puri.sm/products/librem-14 https://system76.com/laptops

Purism is a good example, but System76 is not -- they're not actually designing or building hardware specifically for Linux, but tailoring existing hardware for Linux.

The distinction is they're not trying to develop a new computer that only runs or officially supports Linux. Instead they're leveraging the sales volumes of these OEM/ODMs which do offer Windows in order to keep prices in line with similarly specced laptops.

Compare this to Purism, whose offerings are much more expensive compared to similarly specced laptops, and because of this unlikely to gain mass market appeal. An initiative like Framework needs some amount of mass market appeal to make the repairability aspect really make sense, else it'll just be expensive and resource intensive to manufacture small quantities of these systems.

Re: The Framework Laptop

#937

Post by lovelyviking »

treve wrote: post #365
lovelyviking wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you describe is exactly the headache I was mentioning and dreaming to avoid. I do not need part of the laptop separated from the laptop to have additional task to think when to take them together and when not to take them together. I do not want to search for this 'little guy' in the dark and be stuck without it when I forgot to take it because a lot of other things happening in the same time around or I lost it…

The issue with this thread is that it seems like an argument, but different people just have different sensibilities. Get the machine that suits _you_. Unless you want to run Apple OS because then you're not given choice.

For me it's not about what suits who. For me it's about what philosophy you put into design of a portable computer as a tool and what it can allow/encourage you to achieve/create.

Re: The Framework Laptop

#938

Post by Toutouxc »

vagrantJin wrote: post #913
Toutouxc wrote: post #865

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where's the fanboyism in that? They were commenting on a post about how most PC touchpads suck and that for some people a great touchpad is a requirement, the absence of which would prevent them from buying other laptops, such as the Framework Laptop.

> for some people a great touchpad is a requirement, The touchpad. Nothing else. Just the touchpad? I'm not given to hyperbole but methinks there's a lot of info and technical requirements that go into purchasing an expensive item such as a laptop. Screen size and quality, keyboard quality, ports, batter life, weight, performance, looks - oh you know...normal stuff. At least for us normal people. Maybe my mistake was…

A requirement, not THE [single] requirement. English isn't my first language but I believe that what I wrote is clear enough and you're playing dumb for some reason.

Re: The Framework Laptop

#939

Post by lovelyviking »

sib wrote: post #431
tomtheelder wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the SD card example encapsulates the issue perfectly. I'm pretty sure that in 2021 that is an _extreme_ niche use case. I feel like only extremely serious photographers and perhaps a particular slice of musicians use them. It makes absolutely no sense for them to have that built into the laptop. 99% of people who own Macbooks or whatever don't own an SD card dongle because they don't need it. However, and ext…

And most "extremely serious photographers" today are probably using cameras for which SD cards are not the storage format (or at least the preferred format.)

It Depends how you measure "extremely serious photographers". Starting from Nikon d610 you have descent quality on sd-card plus portability in the same time. I understand that you can't put all the ports in the world in the laptop and while CF Cards reader would also be useful for photography I think sd-card reader or even micro-sd-card reader gives a compromise for mobile solution that covers many needs. Lack of this sd-card reader gives additional headache and nothing more useful as I see it.

Re: The Framework Laptop

#940

Post by Jeff_Brown »

jameshart wrote: post #906
IQunder130 wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope this business of yours works out because a laptop that isn't a piece of junk with too much stuff I don't need inflating the price is something I've been wanting for a long time.

This does not look like a pathway to reduce the cost of your laptop by throwing out junk you don’t need. This looks like every part will be more expensive due to the focus on sustainable materials, e-waste and modularization. If you’re price-focused, are you really willing to pay a premium for ethical sourcing and repairability on the subset of components you want to populate your laptop with?

The upgradeability could mean you save money in the long term even if each piece is substantially more expensive than its dispoable counterpart.

Of course, asking people to trust that long-term calculus for a new product from a new company is nontrivial.

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