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Technology Without Industry

geohot.github.io

61–68 of 68 posts

Re: Technology Without Industry

#61
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And investment in preserving nature, learning from it, and investment into human beings and nurturing their capabilities dwarfs all the investment in technology. And I don't mean nurturing capabilities to make them drones spending all their energy working for corporates, but for themselves and being able to pursue their own causes. And believe me, we won't need new shoes and new apps and perfect games every week if w…

> spending all their energy working for corporates, Without corporates, we'd be spending all our energy working on subsistence farms. No thanks.

Why do you think that? We can still work and produce, but instead of having new shoes released by nike every month, they would be released every year. People who want to work 80hrs/wk can still do that, essential jobs like firefighters that currently pay very little can pay 250k a year, instead of getting 10 fruits in your supermarket, you will have to deal with 5 locally grown ones, but anyone who wants to pursue other things will be generously allowed to. Usual work days can be reduced to 3 days of work per week.

We just need to reduce fetishism with non human scale technology at the cost of nature and humans. But people are still free to pursue it, and societies can pick what aspects they want.

Re: Technology Without Industry

#62
post #35
post #30

With all due respect George, I now disagree, even if I did agree in 2012 (when we road tripped together to SXSW; celebrating the destruction of SOPA!). I still think SOPA was terrible! But my broader thinking has dramatically evolved as I learned more about how technology and power interact in society. You assume a common fallacy that I often bring up on HN — the magical decentralization fallacy — "the mistaken belie…

I go back and forth on this. I am NOT in the "decentralize everything" camp. But I fear power more than chaos. Chaos turns over. Power resists that. Power seeks its own structural stasis. But in chaos, there's a fertile and teeming intertidal zone in every churn of a chaotic system. (though it is uncomfortable for us as inhabitants, and that is fuckin real) I've had the privilege to be involved in both tech, biochemi…

I've been wrestling with this quality in a technical sense for quite some time.

Take for instance IP. IP was designed to be decentralized. And "End to End Arguments in System Design" piled on and led to UDP, further disintermediating sysadmins and their kernels. And we all felt that energy when we discovered the Internet, that magic hope of building new systems that served ourselves with voluntary peer to peer interactions.

But all of this was a bit fallacious, in that there is nothing forcing parties to follow a protocol's guidelines, rather than taking things "as they are" and acting in their own self interest. "I"SPs have deployed DPI gear and transparent proxying, GeoIP providers have forced some implicit notion of location onto every IP address, piracy surveillance firms legally harass people running small routers, etc. Ultimately there was nothing built into the protocol that would prevent these things happening and so they did, despite that boundless world we felt when it was fresh.

Think of how difficult these attacks would have been if most packet fields had been protected with encryption and addresses were based on source routing (onion, of course). Obviously that would have necessitated different technique requirements, and perhaps failed in different ways, but you can see what I'm getting at. There are modern overlay networks that do these things, but since their users are a minority of all users, it is easy to block them outright.

FWIW I see the same thing with Bitcoin and its lack of the untraceability property. How long until the financial control industry ("money laundering") invents a parallel source of truth, and progressively gets it enforced at the exchanges?

Re: Technology Without Industry

#63
post #46
post #26

Isn’t this the dude that first cracked iOS? I was wondering what happened to him.

He invented the word "Jailbreak" and got kicked out of Rochester Institute of Technology for rewriting his student ID card with SQL injection to get into any room and get free food/drink from vending machines. He's a legend.

Those things are just part of the common college experience. I got into rooms with an under-the-door coathanger contraption (always fun seeing the reaction of the person who got locked out realize wait, anyone can just do that?), and got free snacks due a firmware bug triggered by invalid card reads. Getting kicked out for those things is a good example of how technology has escalated the severity of punishment, because people who can manipulate it are considered witches.

Re: Technology Without Industry

#64
I am a big fan of geohot and comma.ai. I use Comma two on my toyota ~everyday. Although I am not on the boat of decentralize everything, I am very much on the boat of "Independent things and services that work well with each other". Those independent services can be islands e.g gmail for mail, but if they're operable that is awesome. It creates more M x N choice.

I am not okay with Tesla cars can only be charged at Tesla electric stations. We have wonderful things in world because of that M x N relationship.

Re: Technology Without Industry

#65
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> spending all their energy working for corporates, Without corporates, we'd be spending all our energy working on subsistence farms. No thanks.

Why do you think that? We can still work and produce, but instead of having new shoes released by nike every month, they would be released every year. People who want to work 80hrs/wk can still do that, essential jobs like firefighters that currently pay very little can pay 250k a year, instead of getting 10 fruits in your supermarket, you will have to deal with 5 locally grown ones, but anyone who wants to pursue ot…

The way people organize to work on something is to form a company (or corporation). Getting rid of them means everyone pretty much has to be self-sufficient, i.e. subsistence farming.

> anyone who wants to pursue other things will be generously allowed to.

As they are now. Nobody is forced to work for any companies in America.

Re: Technology Without Industry

#66
post #2

[flagged]

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Re: Technology Without Industry

#67
post #60
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Heh, thanks for asking instead of downvoting :) I would say it is true: "toxic" is only a word in reference to effects on other biologies. So on the whole, no, biology is NOT toxic to biology. It is non-toxic. (Though yes, toxins exist in biological niches that are toxic to some biologies and neutral to others.)

No, I meant "(1) functional state of folded proteins being an exact match with the lowest energy conformational state that it's linear amino acid order allows" This is untrue.

I'd say yes: https://www.pnas.org/content/111/45/15873

But no, if one were being that particular brand of particular that points out that amorphous aggregates are technically lower energy, which is true but not really interesting and kinda beside the point: https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Energy-landscape-of-prot...

And yes, I'm sure there are uncountable exceptions in biology, but this is the generally mechanism of how it works, no?

Re: Technology Without Industry

#68
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I go back and forth on this. I am NOT in the "decentralize everything" camp. But I fear power more than chaos. Chaos turns over. Power resists that. Power seeks its own structural stasis. But in chaos, there's a fertile and teeming intertidal zone in every churn of a chaotic system. (though it is uncomfortable for us as inhabitants, and that is fuckin real) I've had the privilege to be involved in both tech, biochemi…

cheers, a vivid and lucid description of the dynamics. i’ve been thinking along these lines in relation to business and economy, toward a conclusion that our economic policy should be principally geared toward encouraging medium-sized ($10-50MM) and focused businesses, which provides plenty of reward and economies of scale while avoiding the corrupting forces and negative externalities of behemoths and conglomerates.…

Aw jeez, thanks for saying.

This sorta of thinking clicks with me. Esp the "discourage not prohibit" framing. I think I have similar hopes, except I maybe hinge my thinking less on direct taxation or regulatory schemes ("if you get above threshold X, we take Y%") and instead lean a little but more on tactics of growing the co-operative ecosystem, which i believe will dampen the bad stuff in similar ways. I feel that co-operative companies tend to grow by collaborating instead of expanding/acquiring -- by scaling whole sector horizontally, instead of individual companies vertically -- and more co-operative companies will results in similar outcomes to what you speak of, but which cannot be easily dismantled as the tides sweep left to right, and back again :)

But I feel aligned with what you're saying, and I would cheer such measures even though I work with other tactics!

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