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The Framework Laptop

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Re: The Framework Laptop

#901

Post by nickflood »

dfgdghdf wrote: post #863
arianvanp wrote: post #606

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> * Lenovo Thinkpad - A little more configurable than a MacBook, and much better value, but still difficult to repair. Missing premium features like an Aluminium case. difficult to repair? They're super easy to repair! My T430 even came with a bay to access the RAM and hard drive without opening the case up. Also replacing things like keyboard usually is only 2 screws even on the newer models. All screws are standard…

I think that model is discontinued. You need to compare with the X1 Carbon models.

Dell XPS 13/15/17 are super repairable, too. Unlike the macbooks, the battery is replaceable. On 15"/17" models the RAM is socketed. The SSD drives are all standard socketed. And nothing is glued, everything is screwed in with a good replacement parts market available after about a year of the laptop coming out. I've just gotten the XPS 9310 and 9700 and they are very repairable.

Only things missing are the RAM on a 13" version and wifi cards being soldered in (but you can theoretically use a different wi-fi card on a 17" as it has a spare M.2 slot).

Before that I've performed upgrades from XPS 15 9550 to 9560 and 9570 by swapping the motherboard and couple other parts. So it's not like Apple _at all_. It's more like the opposite of Apple

Re: The Framework Laptop

#902

Post by jonplackett »

SilverRed wrote: post #755
jonplackett wrote: post #353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Laptops seems a very different situation to this though. There isn’t a huge amount of ready to use phone hardware from multiple competitive consumer suppliers I feel like integrating into a phone myself. But there are those things for a laptop. If they can make this work at a reasonable price it would be appealing even to me as an ardent Mac user.

The OUYA did not have this problem. They packed stock standard android hardware in to a box. The problem was that it didn't have enough games to make it worth buying or enough developers to make it work targeting. I haven't read the details of this specific laptop in the OP but I have seen similar projects go nowhere. What usually happens is the product ends up a lot more expensive and lower quality than a mass produ…

Yeah it depends if you really can use cheap hardware with it or if they're just locking you into their own proprietary stuff, which as you say, could just get discontinued.

Re: The Framework Laptop

#903

Post by mnsc »

nkrisc wrote: post #474
throwaway894345 wrote: post #372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've still never seen a PC with a sane touchpad. That's the first issue in a long tail of grievances with the PC laptop ecosystem. EDIT: This isn't a generic "pro-Mac" dig, I want a nice PC laptop because I like dabbling with Linux; however, even the high end trackpads are clunky, even with the pre-installed Windows (never mind the eternal sadness that is Linux trackpad configuration).

For whatever reason, I've never used a laptop that wasn't a MacBook that has had a trackpad anywhere as amazing as what Apple has done. I don't know if the problem is hardware, software, or both, but as a consumer I don't care. I'll never buy a non-Apple laptop until I can find one that has a trackpad as good or better. That's my personal requirement. On a personal laptop I always use the trackpad so I want it to be…

Am I really that unique in never having used the trackpad on a laptop at all, other than a last resort being forced to use some weird non-Lenovo thing without a nipple?

Always an external mouse in the backpack and the nipple as a fallback.

Re: The Framework Laptop

#904

Post by numpad0 »

jack_riminton wrote: post #887
enw wrote: post #811

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm guessing a big reason why it has never been prioritized is due to the difficulty of quantifying the impact of great trackpad UX (and as a result, the negative impact of the shitty trackpad UX every non-Apple device offers). Higher-ups don't like things that aren't easily quantified.

It’s an interesting point. There must be some metrics i.e. latency, accuracy that a trackpad can be measured by Perhaps it needs to be a score via a user test e.g click these small randomly appearing boxes in the shortest time possible

I remember Wacom bragging about corporate secret quantitative measurement methodologies in Surface 3-4 era, but what completely solved pen computing stagnation was Microsoft dropping them completely and Apple Pencil casually stepping in, so,

Re: The Framework Laptop

#905

Post by tw04 »

nrp wrote: post #183
samizdis wrote: post #103

Ars Technica has a sceptical but optimistic/hopeful take on it: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/02/framework-startup-de... Edit to add quote from Ars article: Framework is promising an awful lot in its very first product—"thin as an XPS 13, repairable as a custom-built gaming PC" is a pretty tall order to live up to. We very much want to believe, but it's going to take a full Ars Technica teardown before we're c…

"thin as an XPS 13, repairable as a custom-built gaming PC" was not actually a direct quote from us, but it's nice that the folks at Ars think of our design that way!

Any plans to support AMD chips?

Re: The Framework Laptop

#906

Post by jameshart »

IQunder130 wrote: post #313
nrp wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"thin as an XPS 13, repairable as a custom-built gaming PC" was not actually a direct quote from us, but it's nice that the folks at Ars think of our design that way!

I hope this business of yours works out because a laptop that isn't a piece of junk with too much stuff I don't need inflating the price is something I've been wanting for a long time.

This does not look like a pathway to reduce the cost of your laptop by throwing out junk you don’t need. This looks like every part will be more expensive due to the focus on sustainable materials, e-waste and modularization. If you’re price-focused, are you really willing to pay a premium for ethical sourcing and repairability on the subset of components you want to populate your laptop with?

Re: The Framework Laptop

#907

Post by fsflover »

ThinkBeat wrote: post #369

I really want to buy hardware that allows easy repair. That goes for laptops and cellphone in particular. Laptops used to allow easy replacement of battery, memory and hardrives at the very least. All that sacrificed in the name of making the devices "thinner" and the design more attractive. What bits me most is that a lot of younger friends I have, have no such expectations. Talk to them about a cellphone the answer…

> I really want to buy hardware that allows easy repair. That goes for laptops and cellphone in particular.

IFixIt: Smartphone Doesn’t Have to Be Glued Shut

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCccpgposh4

Re: The Framework Laptop

#908

Post by fsflover »

samatman wrote: post #529
nrp wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have the funding we need to bring the product to market (an odd downstream benefit of Oculus getting bought by Facebook), but we will be taking pre-orders with a deposit prior to shipping to make sure our SKU mix and production rates are matched to actual demand. We won't be asking consumers to pay a premium for longevity, but it's nice to hear that you'd be willing to!

Drive by suggestion here. I think you should offer a first-class Linux experience with this laptop. It's a genuinely underserved market, with a lot of overlap for people who care about the repairability and upgradability which are core to your offering. A market with premium mind share, as well. When I say first class, I mean something specific: you should spend some of your engineering budget making a really good dr…

> There are a bunch of developers who have stuck with the Mac for essentially one reason, the touchpad.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24700537

> Obviously you can't offer just Linux

Yes, you can: https://puri.sm/products/librem-14

https://system76.com/laptops

Re: The Framework Laptop

#909

Post by fsflover »

Liskni_si wrote: post #404
com2kid wrote: post #381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

See, I disagree, I use home/end/pageup/pagedown all the time, and having them separate in an awkward spot is annoying. I prefer having them overlaid on the arrow keys, with fn to access them. IMHO that is the one area laptop keyboards can superior to full size keyboards.

We probably need laptops with configurable keyboard layouts then, so that you can choose a variant when purchasing it and then replace it with different one if you find out you don't like it. (And then, let's not forget that keyboard layouts are somewhat configurable in software. It's easy to bind pageup to mod-uparrow and pagedown to mod-downarrow. But it can't be done if the physical keys are missing, so physical k…

> We probably need laptops with configurable keyboard layouts then

https://puri.sm/posts/librem-14-adding-librem-ec-freed-embed...

Re: The Framework Laptop

#910

Post by magikaram »

google234123 wrote: post #385
ThinkBeat wrote: post #369

I really want to buy hardware that allows easy repair. That goes for laptops and cellphone in particular. Laptops used to allow easy replacement of battery, memory and hardrives at the very least. All that sacrificed in the name of making the devices "thinner" and the design more attractive. What bits me most is that a lot of younger friends I have, have no such expectations. Talk to them about a cellphone the answer…

I'm pretty sure Apple goes far more for the green agenda than the old PC makers ever did - even taking into account the tiny savings you get from the few people that upgraded or repaired their laptops in the past.

Apple, when you had repairs for a device, rather than repairing it, have actually ended up just throwing away the old device in favor of swapping for a new one. The past 6 years, they've made devices with no serviceable parts. Your RAM, Storage, Keyboard, among other parts - are all soldered to the board, riveted to the chassis, or glued shut. There is no way to service those machines. Once your Flash chips die, you need a whole new motherboard.

Sure, Apple recycles some of the parts of the device, but environmentally, it's much better to support and repair a device than it is to simply crush it and recycle it.

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