Earlier quoted context omitted.
You mean, like manufacturing electronics? It takes about 1MWh to manufacture a laptop, the same energy needed to drive a Tesla for 3000 miles. https://www.networkworld.com/article/2229029/computer-factor...
You can avoid a lot of flying and driving by using zoom on that laptop.
Semiconductors Demand 30% Above Supply, 20% Year-on-Year Growth
121–130 of 170 posts
Re: Semiconductors Demand 30% Above Supply, 20% Year-on-Year Growth
#122I am very far removed from the semi-conductor industry and the supply chain they feed. But given that lots of manufacturers slowed production because of COVID concerns and expectation of lower sales due to the expected recession only to find that demand was stable or even up as people adopted to remote working/learning, are we seeing now the peak of the Bullwhip effect?
In other words, as manufacturers now try to catch up, how possible is it that manufacturers panic and over-order only to find that people got what they wanted and are not going to buy as much as expected this year? If that is the case, increased demand is not sustained growth.
[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beer_distribution_game [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullwhip_effect
Re: Semiconductors Demand 30% Above Supply, 20% Year-on-Year Growth
#123Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's just a handy reference for energy usage, and I assume this figure is more readily available due to the car being battery powered. It's a bit harder to work out for an ICE-powered car, as you'd have to calculate the energy required to move the car based on aerodynamics and weight. I have no interest in TSLA stock, nor do I think Tesla is anything like the sustainable future of transportation. I mostly picked Tels…
You can do exactly the same back-of-the-envelope calculation for ICE engines as you did for the Tesla, you just need to know the average fuel consumption per mile and the energy density of gasoline. No need to worry about areodynamics.
Fuel is far more energy dense for ICE engines are far far less efficient.
I don't get this comparison point as well, electronics is dwarfed compared to other far more energy intensive industries.
Re: Semiconductors Demand 30% Above Supply, 20% Year-on-Year Growth
#124Re: Semiconductors Demand 30% Above Supply, 20% Year-on-Year Growth
#125Earlier quoted context omitted.
The DoD's Industrial Capabilities report to Congress[1] that got posted on HN last week recommended exactly this: > "Outside of the United States, foreign governments and their citizens pay the lion’s share, one way or another, of the cost of building the fab. The companies do not. They take on the other massive set of costs: running the fab. The hard truth is that if the United States does not start doing the same,…
The Chinese government is willing to spend what it takes to win and this is the reason why they will win. The US government is way too reluctant to spend in this regard. The Chinese government is investing hundreds of billions in artificial intelligence, hundreds of billions more in renewables, and so on. I don't see Congress giving a blank check to scientists and engineers, like China does.
If the governments go head to head, China wins easily. Their government is stuffed with PhDs, scientists and engineers. The US government has lawyers.
Re: Semiconductors Demand 30% Above Supply, 20% Year-on-Year Growth
#126Equipment companies are running at an all-out sprint to ship fabrication equipment. Applied Materials, the world's largest by revenue, has 1,390 open positions. #4 Lam Research has 570. The equipment space is brutally cyclic, akin to the oil services industry. Revenue can jump as much as 60% year over year, only to plummet 40% the next. It's always worrisome to see these macro-trends, feasting now, but famine sure to…
> Applied Materials ... has 1,390 open positions. #4 Lam Research has 570 With this many openings they must be having problems actually getting stuff done. But as you suggest, by the time they get a good chunk of these openings hired for they'll be looking to cut heads again. People who have been through one cycle before probably aren't inclined to go through the buzzsaw again and so move onto other industries.
And the majority of the job openings are CA and TX
Re: Semiconductors Demand 30% Above Supply, 20% Year-on-Year Growth
#127> Some market observers believe that demand for semiconductors currently exceeds supply by up to 30% […] Then raise the price until it’s too expensive for the extra 30%. Problem solved.
Sure, we can do without those 30%, but wouldn't it be better to find a way to satisfy demand rather?
Re: Semiconductors Demand 30% Above Supply, 20% Year-on-Year Growth
#128"Demand exceeds supply by X%", often a labour related headline, always makes me make the Marge Simpson noise. The framing is a direct contradiction of the main supply & demand theories/concepts. Supply and demand (within theory) are curves not amounts. It grates my circa 2005 economics education.
That said... either definition of supply and demand are arbitrary. It is actually true that in many scenarios, the definition of supply and demand used here (demand is a number) is much more insightful and predictive of what happens in real life. Useful lesson that many/most abstractions and models are useful when they're useful, but we tend to get overly attached to them.
There's a babushka doll element to all this. Divergent economic perspectives defined this industry, and the difference between US policies from (eg) South Korea.
The Korean industrial policy is built on the "demand/supply is a number" concept. US industrial policy built on the "demand/supply is a curve" concept. South Korea subsidized the industry on the assumption that it's a massive growth industry. US policy of this era (circa 2000) expected declining US production as marginal profits declined. They also saw the process as natural and positive. Leading economies hand over cutting edge industries to the next tier economies, focusing on the new cutting edge industries. Next tier countries (ATT, south korea) can focus semiconductors, and offload their second tier industries. Textile manufacturing is at the bottom of this stack.
Both US and Korean policy makers were correct. Apple is a great example. The product design, software and other high ROI (because low/no capital cost) elements remained in the US. Apple's profits are great. Their jobs (except retail) are all high paying. The parts of Apple with high capital investment requirements, lower margins, lower ROI or lower paid jobs were outsourced. This is pretty much the future 1990s economists in the US wanted.
South Koreans were also right. The idea was that certain industries, like semiconductors are massive growth industries. A good place to establish a competitive lead. True. The also treated capital investment as a good thing, even though it lowers ROI by definition.
I think the US mistake, if it was a mistake, was considering manufacturing a dead end... or a terminal destination. The truth is there will be more things to manufacture in the future, and a cutting edge manufacturing industry is the way to get a lead on that. Pathe dependencies can be important.
It's an interesting story to pay attention to.. maybe a turnaround in some decades-dominant modes of thinking about industrial policy.
Re: Semiconductors Demand 30% Above Supply, 20% Year-on-Year Growth
#129Earlier quoted context omitted.
You can do exactly the same back-of-the-envelope calculation for ICE engines as you did for the Tesla, you just need to know the average fuel consumption per mile and the energy density of gasoline. No need to worry about areodynamics.
Actually you already have something like this. MPGe is used across EV and ICE vehicles alike. Fuel is far more energy dense for ICE engines are far far less efficient. I don't get this comparison point as well, electronics is dwarfed compared to other far more energy intensive industries.
MPGe also touches on the source of the energy you are using to propel your car, and depending on your power grid energy mix, can produce quite widely different results for EVs. Once you also take into account transmission and conversion losses, it is not as good as you'd think.
Electronics is one of the most energy intensive industries in the world, especially if you do the calulcation per weight of final product.
Re: Semiconductors Demand 30% Above Supply, 20% Year-on-Year Growth
#130Earlier quoted context omitted.
> and expect nothing in return Aside from the expectation of unwavering loyalty to the Communist Party of China, you mean.
Is that not what I said?: > except for that industry to be in China.
That is: it goes a fair bit beyond merely keeping companies in a given geography.