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The Framework Laptop

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Re: The Framework Laptop

#871

Post by Toutouxc »

Something1234 wrote: post #782
nkrisc wrote: post #474

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For whatever reason, I've never used a laptop that wasn't a MacBook that has had a trackpad anywhere as amazing as what Apple has done. I don't know if the problem is hardware, software, or both, but as a consumer I don't care. I'll never buy a non-Apple laptop until I can find one that has a trackpad as good or better. That's my personal requirement. On a personal laptop I always use the trackpad so I want it to be…

I really don't get what is so special about all of these trackpad debates. Honestly if my trackpad can do a 2 finger scroll I'm happy. Worst trackpad I've used was on my x201, and was only terrible because it was tiny and insensitive.

Would you consider using one of the trackpads you're happy with INSTEAD of a mouse? For non-precision work, that is. Browsing, navigating an IDE, clicking around the OS, stuff like that. In an emergency anything that does a two finger scroll and registers a click is okay, but would you enjoy using it for eight hours every day? Apple will confidently sell you a $5000 desktop machine with just their trackpad, because it is that good.

Re: The Framework Laptop

#872

Post by edpichler »

My dream is to have this one but running Mac OS. Or a Macbook having this upgradeable features, where I know it will not happen soon as it's against the planned obsolesce of the industry.

Re: The Framework Laptop

#873

Post by saagarjha »

randomchars wrote: post #248
lovelyviking wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I think this proves that Apple was right to dump legacy ports. How it proves it? Those guys do not drop ports, they just make them modular. All the "saved space" in Apple laptops become amazingly wasted space in your bag with tons of adapters and wires. I still dream to meet the one who made such 'wise' decision to tell him what I think about it personally! >USB-C, and the correct cables, are all anyone needs. I am…

> All the "saved space" in Apple laptops become amazingly wasted space in your bag with tons of adapters and wires. Maybe that's the case for you, but that's far from universal. I have zero need for any adapters. At work, I can use usb-c to connect to my monitor, and if I need to present in a meeting room, I do it wirelessly. At home, I can use airplay to share my screen to my TV.

Your monitor which happens to have ports on it?

Re: The Framework Laptop

#874

Post by gillesjacobs »

kieranl wrote: post #75
gillesjacobs wrote: post #58

Great initiative, but the proprietary expansion cards are entirely counter-productive to maintainability. The expansion cards will only be available for as long as your company provides them. Using the most-commonly used, mass-manufactured standard interfaces for components would provide more long-term repairability and upgradeability. The trade-off would be in design resulting in more bulk and in the economics of yo…

We will open up the expansion card spec and share reference designs to enable partners and the community to build their own! I want it to be open as much as you do.

Sounds like a good solution to me, I hope you succeed, I surely will keep an eye on the project!

I assumed it wouldn't be an open design because the marketing didn't mention it. I would integrate this message in your marketing because it's worth convincing critical audiences.

Re: The Framework Laptop

#875

Post by varispeed »

baybal2 wrote: post #341
varispeed wrote: post #147

This would be perfect think to spin off your own machines. Imagine downloading a Kicad files for motherboard, adding your own stuff, sending off to JLCPCB or similar for assembly and then stuffing into the laptop shell.

KiCAD is not the calibre of an EDA you would use to make PC motherboard.

That depends on the frequency I guess and how integrated the chips of your choosing are. If you don't go to idk 1GHz area, then things can be forgiving. Shame that the things like Altium are still out of hobbyist reach.

Re: The Framework Laptop

#876

Post by wongarsu »

rchaud wrote: post #650
wongarsu wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand in the laptop space I've never had problems with part availability. With brands like Dell or Lenovo there are plenty of new and used parts available on ebay or your trusted reseller, and official service handbooks are easy to download. The real value-add of the framework laptop is imho the upgrade path: you can swap in newer components without replacing nearly everything. Usually that's limited to j…

Is that true for the premium laptops? I worked at my school's help desk and yes, Dell parts and service manuals were plentiful, but usually for bulky Inspiron and Latitude budget laptops. The ones with ugly screens, wacky trackpads and replaceable batteries. It's been a while since I was in that world, but Dell makes some mighty nice looking machinery these days, but it doesn't look particularly repairable.

XPS are still very repairable. Not as nice as Latitude, but for example replaceing the battery or upgrading RAM only requires unscrewing the bottom (held on by about a dozen torx screws).

Re: The Framework Laptop

#877

Post by rzzzt »

flukus wrote: post #728
rzzzt wrote: post #635

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some dials would be pretty cool on a laptop, though... it just makes the lid harder to close.

Some dials would be good everywhere, I've considered buying some expensive keyboards ( https://www.daskeyboard.com/ ) purely for a volume control knob. A common complaint around here is about how touch screens have taken away better tactile controls, but so have our keyboards.

I also liked the dedicated scroll wheel on MS Office-themed keyboards. They might have gone overboard with the clipboard control buttons, but the wheel felt reasonable.

Re: The Framework Laptop

#878

Post by KozmoNau7 »

nkrisc wrote: post #474
throwaway894345 wrote: post #372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've still never seen a PC with a sane touchpad. That's the first issue in a long tail of grievances with the PC laptop ecosystem. EDIT: This isn't a generic "pro-Mac" dig, I want a nice PC laptop because I like dabbling with Linux; however, even the high end trackpads are clunky, even with the pre-installed Windows (never mind the eternal sadness that is Linux trackpad configuration).

For whatever reason, I've never used a laptop that wasn't a MacBook that has had a trackpad anywhere as amazing as what Apple has done. I don't know if the problem is hardware, software, or both, but as a consumer I don't care. I'll never buy a non-Apple laptop until I can find one that has a trackpad as good or better. That's my personal requirement. On a personal laptop I always use the trackpad so I want it to be…

The best trackpad I've used was on the Tegra K1-based Acer Chromebook 13. It had a good size for multi-touch gestures and was just really well integrated. Combined with a nice low-friction surface and a positive click, I still haven't found its equal.

In fact, that line of chromebooks had the best overall package. Slim, but very sturdy plastic body, a surprisingly good keyboard, ~10 hour battery life. The 13" FHD screen was OK, but not amazing, I would have liked an IPS panel instead of TN.

The major downside is that it was a 32-bit ARM-based chromebook and everyone was going 64-bit x86 instead. So it got slower and slower with each successive update, eventually it couldn't even play 1080p Youtube videos anymore, or even 720p60. Such a shame.

Re: The Framework Laptop

#879

Post by bigpeopleareold »

whynaut wrote: post #594
tstrimple wrote: post #484

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is the space actually being used more effectively? What can fit in the laptop without a SD card slot that couldn't fit with one present? Why is a smooth side with no ports somehow more valuable than a side with usable ports? You can't think you'll see any savings passed along to use for Apple taking out a part that costs them a few dollars at most. Removing the feature won't save any consumers any money, only reduce…

> What can fit in the laptop without a SD card slot that couldn't fit with one present? More battery.

... which will have to occupy an extremely thin case.

I mean, extreme thinness is not really an important criteria for many, but everything seems to gets compromised to serve that goal.

Re: The Framework Laptop

#880

Post by [deleted] »

_0w8t wrote: post #779
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #651

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect the key software is in the firmware of the trackpad itself. The hardware does a lot of processing of the raw signals before it hands the data to the trackpad driver. The driver does additional processing, of course, but this also means that alternate trackpad implementations need more than just the right driver code. The firmware plays a key role.

I have Intel MacBook Pro and the behavior of trackpad under Windows in BootCamp is just terrible while in a Windows VM or on a remote Windows desktop it is almost as good as on Mac. So I doubt it is in firmware.

[deleted]
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