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Technology Without Industry

geohot.github.io

31–40 of 68 posts

Re: Technology Without Industry

#31
post #11

>Biology is non-toxic. Biology is efficient. Biology is beautiful. Biology is technology. I have a huge problem, with especially the first two. Biology can be very toxic. Cobra snake venom is a product of biology. Cancer is a product of biology. Both can have horrific consequences for humans. Biology is not necessarily efficient. Take a look at pregnancy and birth and infancy. Before modern medicine and birth control…

Before that it mentioned "Human DNA is 6 GB", but a lot of that is junk and meaningless. "Dead code", so to speak. Hardly what I call efficient. There are plenty of weird things as well. Why can't humans synthesise vitamin C? My cat can; in fact, most animals can. But not humans and most other primates: we lost this ability. This is probably because at the time we didn't really need it as we got enough from dietary s…

> a lot of that is junk and meaningless. "Dead code", so to speak

... so far as we currently know.

DNA is only mostly software; it's also a physical molecule. Many of the columns in a DRAM chip look like a waste of capacitance until you know what alpha particles are and what ECC does.

> the blind spot in our eyes, which is there for no real reason

It's there for a very good reason, the optic nerve connection. Only cephalopods have figured out a better solution, and it's not at all clear that it would work for humans.

Our eyes have to tolerate a lifetime of much-higher UV exposure than sea-creatures, for starters. Cephalopods' optic nerves grow in from the retina toward the brain, and there's a huge bundle of complicated connections to make where they "meet in the middle". Vertebrate optic nerves grow out from the brain and embed themselves in the retina, so there's no wiring problem to solve.

Re: Technology Without Industry

#32
post #14

I kinda don't get the point. What does he mean? I'm afraid to sound rude, but can't find a way to conduct the point otherwise.

It seems like a bit of a ramble to me. I think his underlying point is that technology which creates external dependencies, especially highly centralized dependencies, is bad for a bunch of reasons.

Re: Technology Without Industry

#33
post #8
post #7

> If it centralizes power, it’s bad. If it decentralizes power, it’s good. Power isn't a scalar single value. Twitter and Facebook have demonstratedly decentralized certain forms of power, easier for a person to go viral with their words now than through say a newspaper, while centralizing other forms of power, mostly upon themselves.

And certain powers, I'd argue, are pretty bad to decentralize. Decentralizing the power to inflict massive violence leads to a ton of death, especially during the change in power.

> Decentralizing the power to inflict massive violence leads to a ton of death

Does it? If history is any indicator (and I believe it is), the opposite seems to hold true: the centralization - i.e. monopolization - of violence enables violence without impunity, and as that monopolization approaches its logical conclusion, so does that monopolized violence increase in magnitude and breadth.

In contrast, decentralized violence keeps everyone accountable; any aggressor has to be prepared for the very real possibility that one's victim can and will retaliate with equal force. As Heinlein said: "an armed society is a polite one".

Re: Technology Without Industry

#34
> Biology is non-toxic. Biology is efficient. Biology is beautiful. Biology is technology.

> Biology is not centralized. Biology is not alien.

Whoo boy. That sequence is so off the mark it's stunning.

Biology is non-toxic? non-alien? Let's start by looking out your window: toxic, alien biology is currently keeping us holed up unable to interact with one another for fear of death.

Biology is efficient? Let's talk about the lyrangeal nerve of a giraffe. Or the reproductive plumbing of a human male. Or perhaps, instead, let us consider the tail of a peacock. Efficiency is almost an anti-goal of biology since robustness reproduces.

Biology can be beautiful--it can also be very, very ugly. And I suspect ugly is the preponderance as biology simply doesn't care about beauty.

Biology is not centralized--laughably claimed in the same breath with biology is "efficient". Much of biology is not centralized--but then a lot of biology is. We have decentralized nervous and circulatory systems--but those systems are driven by a very centralized heart and brain. Our vision system is centralized while touch is highly decentralized.

Biology is technology. About the only correct point in the whole sequence.

Re: Technology Without Industry

#35
post #30

With all due respect George, I now disagree, even if I did agree in 2012 (when we road tripped together to SXSW; celebrating the destruction of SOPA!). I still think SOPA was terrible! But my broader thinking has dramatically evolved as I learned more about how technology and power interact in society. You assume a common fallacy that I often bring up on HN — the magical decentralization fallacy — "the mistaken belie…

I go back and forth on this. I am NOT in the "decentralize everything" camp. But I fear power more than chaos. Chaos turns over. Power resists that. Power seeks its own structural stasis. But in chaos, there's a fertile and teeming intertidal zone in every churn of a chaotic system. (though it is uncomfortable for us as inhabitants, and that is fuckin real)

I've had the privilege to be involved in both tech, biochemistry, and a few years of community organizing, and there's something going on here that's interesting. There's maybe some redemption of decentralizing forces, even though they invite chaos. If there is a redemption, it's in a dynamism I don't see articulated too often.

It's like we need some force that decentralizes at the edges (that pushes itself out, and invites more entry across the boundary of in-and-out), but that once inside, it's agents repel themselves from power -- repel themselves from the center.

In my community organizing conversations, we speak of this concretely around the term "we". We want members who are new and drifting around the edges, considering entry -- we want them to feel welcome to step over the boundary into a space, and feel welcome to use the word "we" as early as they care to. But then as people stick around, they'll use "we" more, moving toward the center. But as they cross some fuzzy threshold, a good "leader" or steward in such a community should pump the breaks. They should resist using the word "we" too comfortably -- they should resist using the word "we" to wear the community like a mech suit in conversations. They need to work hard to prevent themselves from falling toward the middle of the group and making themselves central. And if all members navigate this dynamics well, then you end up with a leaderFUL organization, with many leaders. And that community is fractal, almost holographic -- any fragment of that community contains a low-resolution version of the whole :)

I believe this dynamic is important to all stable and complex systems of the certain sort that we humans are :)

EDIT: I'm quite interested in these intersections, so if someone is reading this, pls feel free to poke me on Twitter @patconnolly if any of this runs parallel to your own complexity science or network science interests!

Re: Technology Without Industry

#36
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And investment in preserving nature, learning from it, and investment into human beings and nurturing their capabilities dwarfs all the investment in technology. And I don't mean nurturing capabilities to make them drones spending all their energy working for corporates, but for themselves and being able to pursue their own causes. And believe me, we won't need new shoes and new apps and perfect games every week if w…

> spending all their energy working for corporates, Without corporates, we'd be spending all our energy working on subsistence farms. No thanks.

Is it too much to ask for balance though?

I see neither end as ideal for the average person, but we are definitely farther to the corporate side of things than I am personally comfortable with.

Re: Technology Without Industry

#38
post #30

With all due respect George, I now disagree, even if I did agree in 2012 (when we road tripped together to SXSW; celebrating the destruction of SOPA!). I still think SOPA was terrible! But my broader thinking has dramatically evolved as I learned more about how technology and power interact in society. You assume a common fallacy that I often bring up on HN — the magical decentralization fallacy — "the mistaken belie…

The real fallacy (delusion?) is that people increasingly equate speech with physical violence and the Internet structures with physical structures and states.

The piece you linked to is pure propaganda.

Re: Technology Without Industry

#39
post #35
post #30

With all due respect George, I now disagree, even if I did agree in 2012 (when we road tripped together to SXSW; celebrating the destruction of SOPA!). I still think SOPA was terrible! But my broader thinking has dramatically evolved as I learned more about how technology and power interact in society. You assume a common fallacy that I often bring up on HN — the magical decentralization fallacy — "the mistaken belie…

I go back and forth on this. I am NOT in the "decentralize everything" camp. But I fear power more than chaos. Chaos turns over. Power resists that. Power seeks its own structural stasis. But in chaos, there's a fertile and teeming intertidal zone in every churn of a chaotic system. (though it is uncomfortable for us as inhabitants, and that is fuckin real) I've had the privilege to be involved in both tech, biochemi…

I like your power/chaos analogy and it seems healthy to me to invite both centralization and decentralization at the same time or a flux between the two. If power and chaos always kept one another in check they'd create a symbiosis that would benefit everyone
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