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The Framework Laptop

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Re: The Framework Laptop

#791

Post by taneq »

frant-hartm wrote: post #467
mnahkies wrote: post #415

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Use the keyboard predominantly instead of the trackpad and problem mitigated ;) I've been using Linux exclusively on ~5 different laptops of varying quality the last few years and I haven't been able to relate to the frequent comments about trackpad support being poor - not sure if it's just I don't use it that much, or don't realize what I'm missing since I haven't used a modern macbook. My biggest gripe applies to…

>don't realize what I'm missing since I haven't used a modern macbook That's what I thought as well, but every time I try to use my colleagues Mac it's a struggle, movement speed is really weird as it's not linear, tapping doesn't behave as one would expect (never had a problem with Linux or even windows with that). The whole thing is a weird button which presses when I don't want to. True, I have used it maybe for 1…

Doesn't every computer have an acceleration setting for mouse speed, on touchpad and physical mouse?

Conflating novice users with mac users seems a bit unreasonable, especially given how many people have used both at various times.

Re: The Framework Laptop

#792

Post by rgoulter »

layer8 wrote: post #685
wishinghand wrote: post #653

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Having to press yet another additional modifier key destroys usability and muscle memory I'm far more comfortable moving my fingers and thumbs as little as possible rather than having to stretch far and wide for those extra function keys.

For me it’s the opposite: I get RSI from having to stretch my hands to press 2-3 modifiers simultaneously, whereas moving my hands a bit is no problem.

If there are different preferences for arrangement of keyboard layout, then my vote goes to: it would be amazing if there were a laptop where such things could be customized. Then the people who want niche 40% or 36-key layouts can go with that, and those who prefer more keys can go with that.

IMO, the row-stagger is an unergonomic, archaic skeuomorphism. This is also a niche opinion.

Unfortunately, I'm sure there are practical reasons why "modular keyboard" can't happen (not enough market interest, strength of the laptop hull suffers if the keyboard is a separate module, laptop couldn't be as thin, etc.).

Re: The Framework Laptop

#793

Post by saagarjha »

airbreather wrote: post #758
throwaway894345 wrote: post #550

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You... you do realize that you can’t order a PC laptop with a Mac trackpad, right? No one is like, “I could have the Mac trackpad for the same cost, but I prefer the stuttery trackpad that moves the cursor and selects shit when my palm gets too close”.

but I believe you can buy a bluetooth apple keyboard with mousepad built in

For iPad.

Re: The Framework Laptop

#794

Post by accelbred »

nrp wrote: post #171
jblow wrote: post #153

Hi, When I saw this announcement I was hoping that I could finally buy a laptop with a good trackpad, with buttons, and a good keyboard again. But looking at the announcement, it seems like trackpad and keyboard quality are far from anyone's mind, and it just looks like the laptop is copying Apple stylistically like everyone else, which means it is going to be kind-of unusable and I won't want to use it. (Especially…

Keyboard and touchpad quality were high priorities for us. We built in 1.5mm key travel, which is unusually high for a <16mm thick laptop. The touchpad surface feels great and performs well. I hear you on the touchpad buttons though. That is something we've done a little exploration on. The touchpad is an end-user replaceable module, but we can't commit to a three button version materializing just yet.

Are they mechanical keys?

Re: The Framework Laptop

#795

Post by ben-schaaf »

imwillofficial wrote: post #379
NikolaNovak wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yo (hand up). I mean. Really. That strikes me as willfully ignorant and arrogant. Clearly it's heavily used, especially in professional/corporate environments. FWIW I use WiFi if I have to on the move. But at home and office it's hard wire all the way. In the office it's not even an option, everybody must. At home, it's a quality of life thing. The speed drops and disconnections and unpredictability of WiFi are not t…

"Clearly it's heavily used, especially in professional/corporate environments." It's so clear that they removed it from their lineup? Clearly you're wrong. I have two Macbooks work/home, and a USB-C dock has been life changing in its awesomeness. And yes my dock has RJ-45 ;)

> It's so clear that they removed it from their lineup? Clearly you're wrong.

They also removed scissor switches, sd card readers and hdmi. But they're bringing those back (or have already), so they don't seem like a good authority to appeal to here.

Re: The Framework Laptop

#796

Post by jpetso »

necrotic_comp wrote: post #10

I wish new laptops would follow the form factor of the old Thinkpads instead of Macbooks. I realize that most people like trackpads and can't stand the trackpoint, but as someone who has used one for so long it would be fantastic if something like this existed. That being said, this is a great project and it looks like it should be successful - having a laptop that is built to last with interchangable parts is a grea…

Yep. With swappable keyboards, I really hope that they consider an alternative option with trackpoint, trackpoint mouse buttons and full-size arrow keys, perhaps even adjacent PgUp/PgDown keys à la ThinkPad.

Re: The Framework Laptop

#797

Post by opsy2 »

marzell wrote: post #787
SloopJon wrote: post #33

One of the repair challenges is access to old parts. The drain hose on our three year-old washer sprung a leak. When I called a repair man, he at first said that Samsung doesn't make that part anymore. Fortunately, he was mistaken, but if that's something that happens for a simple hose, imagine trying to replace the "high-end headphone amp" expansion card on this laptop five years from now. Even if I'm not too excite…

Since the modules are just USB-C adapted, those parts would probably be easy to mimic by a third party. Maybe they need to be signed or something, hence the marketplace they allude to.

Sounds like 3rd party extension is the goal, and according to other comments here without necessitating distribution on their marketplace either.

Re: The Framework Laptop

#798

Post by freakynit »

Just add a GPU please. A whole community of people buy windows laptops just so that they can game on it. For work, Mac's are still best choice.

But hats off to the initiative. Wee needed this.

Re: The Framework Laptop

#799

Post by naikrovek »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #651
gburdell3 wrote: post #538

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It has to be software. I have a ThinkPad that I recently installed macOS on (not advocating hackintosh, but it's a fun project nonetheless) and the trackpad feels every bit as good as a real Mac. Smooth scrolling, smooth gesture recognition, everything just feels good. The hardware is capable of processing the gestures, but the non-Apple software just does a terrible job of making it feel good to use.

I suspect the key software is in the firmware of the trackpad itself. The hardware does a lot of processing of the raw signals before it hands the data to the trackpad driver. The driver does additional processing, of course, but this also means that alternate trackpad implementations need more than just the right driver code. The firmware plays a key role.

> I suspect the key software is in the firmware of the trackpad itself.

What your parent comment (the comment you replied to) said refutes the reply you made.

They installed OSX on a ThinkPad, and observed the desired OSX-like trackpad behavior. Apple does not write firmware for thinkpad pointing devices, so it cannot be firmware-specific behavior.

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