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I heat my home by mining crypto currencies

blog.haschek.at

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Re: I heat my home by mining crypto currencies

#411
post #410
post #393

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course you need to supply it, you wouldn't use one in Antarctica . (I'm no refrigerant expert, but I assume there's nothing that would work well enough to be worthwhile.) The only reason I can think of for 'or heat taken in' in that definition is exactly to stop people claiming >100% efficiency for heat pumps, which is a corollary for perpetual motion, and equal nonsense. > so a heat pump can use the same heat aga…

English is not my native language. Did I use the word "ambient" properly?

Assuming I understood your argument correctly, yes. :) (ambient foo = the foo all around; usually used w.r.t. temperature, e.g. food cooling to ambient temperature in the room) The air outside that is the input to your heat pump is already there, already at whatever temperature, that's your argument right?

So, yes, it is, but my point is that you can't ignore it as an input just because you don't have to order (and pay for) some air to supply. In calculating efficiency, you have to put an imaginary box around the heat pump, and look at what's going in, and what (that is the desired useful thing) is coming out.

If inputs don't cost you anything, that means you might not care about lower efficiency, but it doesn't mean that the efficiency isn't lower.

Re: I heat my home by mining crypto currencies

#412
post #411
post #410

Earlier quoted context omitted.

English is not my native language. Did I use the word "ambient" properly?

Assuming I understood your argument correctly, yes. :) (ambient foo = the foo all around; usually used w.r.t. temperature, e.g. food cooling to ambient temperature in the room) The air outside that is the input to your heat pump is already there, already at whatever temperature, that's your argument right? So, yes, it is, but my point is that you can't ignore it as an input just because you don't have to order (and p…

1) If we put a very small box around the heat pump, then we will see that temperature in the box increases at constant rate, because of energy loses at the pump. I.e., it will work as a resistive heater, by converting 100% of input electricity into heat, which is the goal. Eventually, the heat pump will stop, because the goal is reached, thus we will have 0 input energy and 0 useful work.

2) To keep the pump running and keep temperature at steady level, we will need to leak heat at constant rate to the second box. Thus, the pump will work at "impossible" 100% of efficiency again: it will convert all input electricity into heat.

If we leak heat at high rate, then the pump will not be able to keep up, but it will still work at 100% efficiency.

If we redirect some leaked heat from the second box back to the pump as input, so it will pump it back into the box, then it will work at 100% of efficiency + additional heat pumped from the second box. Moreover, temperature in the second box will continue to increase at constant rate, so it will reach equilibrium at some point of time again.

3) For the pump to work indefinitely at steady rate, we need something to dump energy into, with infinite capacity. Also, we can use a fraction of this infinite capacity as infinite input into the system, thus the pump will work at 100% + additional heat.

IMHO, first two systems are worthless, because they doomed to reach equilibrium and stop at 0/0.

Re: I heat my home by mining crypto currencies

#413
post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your entire assumption is that France nuclear is at 100% utilization. While utilization%s aren't publicly available, from this graph on Wikipedia about TWh produced [1], you can see that Nuclear has upside capacity, and was probably never 100% utilized (it's the main baseload, thus the biggest buffer option). So the assumption that any marginal utilization is non-nuclear is flawed. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E…

Rather than an unrelated graph on Wikipedia, try looking at for example electricityMap:: https://www.electricitymap.org/zone/FR What you'll see there is as you'd expect if you understand how fission power plants work and how economics works for electricity supply. The nuclear plants may not be running at what is notionally 100% nameplate power output but they are not in fact being used as a "buffer option" very much.…

I am glad I will able to put to rest this common misconception about nuclear power ramping up speed. While it's a common rebuttal argument against nuclear, it's rather incorrect since nuclear power is actually able to ramp up fast enough. Moreover, French nuclear stations are typically older than they should and newer ones could move even faster. But better than Germany's

Anyway, enough empty talk and here is a real world use case from West Europe the 19th of march 2019, lots of wind a sunday. I should translate the whole thing for everyone one day.

https://mobile.twitter.com/tristankamin/status/1102620969808...

Re: I heat my home by mining crypto currencies

#414

I did this in an apartment I lived in years ago, and do it now in my house. My computer room in the house is the lowest point in the house, so naturally, it tends to be a couple degrees cooler than the upstairs. This means that if I set the thermostat so that the computer room is comfortable, the bedroom is too warm. If I run the house circulation fan constantly, it's not an issue, but that consumes a decent amount o…

> If I'm going to consume that much power, I might as well mine crypto and make a few dollars. Mining for NiceHash, a service that lets people rent hashing power from miners What's the benefit of this vs. just participating in a mining pool?

I'm not sure I get it either. Maybe just simplicity / path of least resistance in that NiceHash provides a quick way to get up and running potentially without needing to install mining software and decide on a pool to participate in etc?

Re: I heat my home by mining crypto currencies

#415

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I consider personal enrichment as a sort of useful work as it stands to replace my own 'useful work'

Perhaps parent meant useful with the caveat that "it also wont fuck up the climate, and assist in huge destruction and killing millions in the process of making me rich". Which is so selfish of him. Why should the safety of billions matter over me becoming rich? /s

net useful minus externalities. Sure

Re: I heat my home by mining crypto currencies

#416

1. At an individual/hobbyist level this is a fine thing to do, if one is already a cryptocurrency enthusiast. 2. At a social/planning level it is important to remember that opportunity costs matter, and this should not be recommended as public policy. One kWh of electricity could either be used for mining bitcoin (creating at most one kWh of indoor heat), or it could be used for running a heat pump[*], yielding multi…

People sure talk a lot about heat pumps, but from what I read, they're best suited to around 10 C, which in my climate is a brief interval between the seasons changing and hardly requires heat at all. It may be two or three times as efficient, in a sense, but if it's not usable all winter, it can't save much energy, can it?

Re: I heat my home by mining crypto currencies

#417

1. At an individual/hobbyist level this is a fine thing to do, if one is already a cryptocurrency enthusiast. 2. At a social/planning level it is important to remember that opportunity costs matter, and this should not be recommended as public policy. One kWh of electricity could either be used for mining bitcoin (creating at most one kWh of indoor heat), or it could be used for running a heat pump[*], yielding multi…

People sure talk a lot about heat pumps, but from what I read, they're best suited to around 10 C, which in my climate is a brief interval between the seasons changing and hardly requires heat at all. It may be two or three times as efficient, in a sense, but if it's not usable all winter, it can't save much energy, can it?

I think that applies to air source heat pumps, but if you have another medium that might be better.

Re: I heat my home by mining crypto currencies

#418
post #399
post #395

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>He mentioned that mining is more efficient when the GPUs are cooler... Its simply not true. GPUs dont work fast or slower based on temp as long as the temp is in the rated range. It could potentially save energy by spinning the fans slower if the air around is super cool but the energy savings from that would be incredible small. >since he would be forcing a lot of air through the miner, almost all heat would be tra…

> GPUs dont work fast or slower based on temp as long as the temp is in the rated range Correct me if I'm wrong, but I assumed that mining would quickly cause the GPU to reach the maximum temperature, at which point it would automatically throttle. The performance mainly depends on the cooling power. And air at -10°C will cool a lot more efficiently than air at 20°C. (I'm assuming the ventilation would move a roughly…

A consumer grade GPU comes with a cooling solution on it that should have no problem cooling the card at 100% load. They certainly are rated to work with way higher surrounding air temp than 20C because they are meant to be put in PC cases and the air inside the case is warmer than outside. also they work fine during a heat wave in summer where the room temp can be significantly higher than 20C.

Having the cooling solution not pushed to the max surely has benefits, especially noise reduction and less wear on fan bearings for example. Thats why people build custom cooling solutions. Whether the GPUs are rated to work at -10C however is questionable. Usually electronics for indoors use isn't mean to be used below 0C.

>I assumed that the amount of air used by the ventilation system of the whole house is enough to keep the miner pretty cool. The GPUs would get hot, but since a lot of air is moving through the outside of the miner would not get very warm at all.

The die in the GPU will reach 70C maybe 80C anyway and radiate heat away in all directions heating up the box its in and the box again radiates away the heat + natural moving air around the box picks up the heat. The temp difference matter, the higher they are the more heat is exchanged. So the colder it is outside the more heat is lost. The speed at which the air cools the miner can not fix that. If you assume near infinite airspeed/volume so 99.99% of heat is picked up by the air and blown into the house, that would just mean the air that reaches the house is basically as cold as the outside air because finite energy has been deluded by near infinite volume. That does not work. the air speed/volume has to be low enough to significantly warm up and if that happens outside then energy loses are inevitable.

>...as typically the heat exchanger is very close to the air intake, to avoid long ducts with cold air inside the house.

so the heat that goes into cold air ducts is lost? I thought it would preheat the incoming air just like the miner?

Actually it is not lost but unwanted because there is a heat exchange specifically mean to heat the cold air with the warm air that leaves the house not with warm air that stays in the house. Also preheating the air makes the heat exchange less efficient because it works just like the warm box outside, more heat is exchanged the higher the temp differences are. So you want cold air coming in the heat exchange so it can pick up as much heat as possible from the warm air that is blown out. If you would feed the heat exchanged with warm air it becomes useless and the air going out will still be warm.

The heat exchanger oblivious can not heat up incoming -10C to 20 and cool down the outgoing 20C air to -10 but if you assume such a 100% effective heat exchanger, it becomes obvious that the warmer the incoming air the less heat is exchanged. At 20C it would have no effect at all despite the imaginary 100% effectiveness.

So the authors first idea to heat the air that leaves the house via heat exchanger is way way more efficient. Not only is every heat "lost" still inside the house thus not lost at all, but it also raises not lowers the temp difference in the heat exchanger which means it becomes more efficient. Even better would be to reduce the additional heating his ventilation system does, after the heat exchange and replace that with the mining rig. And by reducing I mean the final temp of the air coming out should be lower and the additional warming should be done by the miner. However this may not be easy to implement. The miner would need to be in series with the ventilation system. Also I dont know about the characteristics of the ventilation system but I assume it sometimes turns off which would then potentially cause the mining rig to overheat. The miner just in the room would not be affected if the ventilation goes off for a while. So the original idea of simply heating the room where the warm air is sucked out is probably the simplest and most effective solution, certainly better than heating the outside.

Re: I heat my home by mining crypto currencies

#419

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting. Never ran across someone who worked for Yandex. Overall are you happy with your employer?

Absolutely! By any definition, the pinnacle place to work for in Russia.

Nice. I use you guys for reverse image search constantly because google image search is heavily curated.
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