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Amazon Sends ‘Vote No’ Instructions to Unionizing Employees

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Re: Amazon Sends ‘Vote No’ Instructions to Unionizing Employees

#471

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To add to that, fines can and do bankrupt small businesses. I cannot remember the last time a big company went bankrupt by fines. Breaking the law poses existential threat to small businesses, not large enterprises.

Fines should be proportional to income. They're supposed to be a deterrent, not a revenue source.

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Re: Amazon Sends ‘Vote No’ Instructions to Unionizing Employees

#472

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To add to that, fines can and do bankrupt small businesses. I cannot remember the last time a big company went bankrupt by fines. Breaking the law poses existential threat to small businesses, not large enterprises.

Fines should be proportional to income. They're supposed to be a deterrent, not a revenue source.

I agree with this idea and think it should extend to personal fines like speeding tickets, but I can see large companies offshoring illegal work to small contracting companies or shell corporations.

Re: Amazon Sends ‘Vote No’ Instructions to Unionizing Employees

#473

What happens to the people who didn't want to pay in, if the union does get set up? Will they be forced to have money taken from them to continue working there? I'd probably quit if some organization suddenly started siphoning my paycheck. Sure unionize if you want, and I'll strike with you over issues, but that doesn't require my payment to accomplish. I am very thankful to live in a right to work state where nobody…

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Re: Amazon Sends ‘Vote No’ Instructions to Unionizing Employees

#474

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They hired actual fucking Pinkertons, which says enough about how aggressive they are. The gloves have been off for a while now.

Pinkerton are the corporate security company of choice for a lot of organisations...including Facebook

And one with a long, long history of violent union busting.

Re: Amazon Sends ‘Vote No’ Instructions to Unionizing Employees

#476
post #336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yea, in most states you can't be forced to join a union, and dues are for the maintenance of the union. Only members pay for it.

A slim majority of 27/50 states. Even in those states, non-union employees can be forced to pay the union "agency fees" for representation costs, but not dues which can be spent on political agenda. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-to-work_law#:~:text=In%2... .

You're confused. 27 states allow paying nothing. 23 states allow agency fees. Federal law prohibits charging non members for political activities.

Re: Amazon Sends ‘Vote No’ Instructions to Unionizing Employees

#477
post #136

Full disclosure: I've always been anti-union for my own personal approach to life. I do see the value in unions, I've just always, to this point, been a go-it-alone-and-fight-my-own-battles kind of person. I don't want to be beholden to a union or their rules any more than I want to be beholden to an employer beyond my contractual obligations for which I'm paid. That said, people should take note of what happened whe…

Something that adds insult to injury is the amount of moral posturing Amazon engages in when it comes to social justice issues. What could be a bigger social justice issue than paying working class people proper wages and benefits? It just screams out to me how hollow and PR driven their support of social justice organizations and initiatives is. And more importantly, the silence from these same social justice initia…

https://observer.com/2020/04/amazon-whole-foods-anti-union-t...

> Data collected in the heat map suggest that stores with low racial and ethnic diversity, especially those located in poor communities, are more likely to unionize.

Re: Amazon Sends ‘Vote No’ Instructions to Unionizing Employees

#478

Full disclosure: I've always been anti-union for my own personal approach to life. I do see the value in unions, I've just always, to this point, been a go-it-alone-and-fight-my-own-battles kind of person. I don't want to be beholden to a union or their rules any more than I want to be beholden to an employer beyond my contractual obligations for which I'm paid. That said, people should take note of what happened whe…

>Its okay if you're bullheaded enough or within your means enough to walk away if your rights aren't given fair consideration and honoured, but if you're in a position where you're a prisoner to your job, i.e. can't afford to take time off to find another job/other income, or there are no other jobs in your area and you don't have the means to leave etc. you don't have any bargaining chip.

This is the core issue. Would a federal level solution work? Maybe then people won't feel like the only solution is to form a union.

Re: Amazon Sends ‘Vote No’ Instructions to Unionizing Employees

#479

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unions do not rent seek. They provide value to society via higher wages and act as a counterbalance to externalities from capital. They are indeed not a cure, but the cure to the symptoms we are seeing is nothing short of a total overhaul of the capitalist system, which is both not politically feasible, and requires something like unions to make politically feasible to begin with. That is because by definition such a…

Minimum wage laws and excess credentialing can definitely be considered rent seeking.

Those activities only fit the definition of rent-seeking if you consider the value of labor as only what the market will bear. By that logic, if I offer a job at $5/hour and someone takes it, any attempt by that employee to get paid above $5 is "rent-seeking".

But that brings us right back to my original point: if my choice is starvation or $5/hour, I'm going to take the $5, but that's a coercive choice. I was forced into it by the threat of death. Now explain to me how that's different from holding a gun to someone and forcing them to work? You didn't determine the value of my labor, you determined that I don't want to die.

So an attempt to increase the cost of labor (minimum wages, credentialing/protectionism) is an attempt to extract the true value of labor, even though the threat of death-by-starvation remains. Like a previous commenter said - unless we want to radically re-org our society - that threat of death is irreducible. For example, if every person was granted enough arable land to subsist off of by the state, we'd see a very different labor market.

Re: Amazon Sends ‘Vote No’ Instructions to Unionizing Employees

#480

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HEY BHM1 DOERS, why pay almost $500 in dues? We’ve got you covered* with high wages, health care, vision, and dental benefits, as well as a safety committee and an appeals process. There’s so much MORE you can do for your career and your family without paying dues. *Applies to regular full-time employees. IF YOU’RE PAYING DUES… it will be RESTRICTIVE meaning it won’t be easy to be as helpful and social with each othe…

It means if you join a union you can't work unpaid and off the clock to be "helpful and social" with your coworkers.

It also refers to work rules that are designed to make sure that workers doing a task are the ones who have been trained for it. Sometimes the rules seem to get in the way: Do you have to call in an electrician to plug in a PC? Or can the guy in the next cube, who saw Norm use a plug strip on PBS, plug it in? The movie version of "A brief history of time" has Dr. Hawking telling an anecdote about nailed down chairs on a set.

It isn't always about neighborly overtime.

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