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The Framework Laptop

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Re: The Framework Laptop

#601

Post by technojunkie »

nrp wrote: post #61
burlesona wrote: post #55

Well, HN will love this. Moddable laptop with a good webcam? Nice. But: - I really dislike the arrow keys not having the air gap above left and right. You’d think they’d learn that from the MacBook butterfly keyboard era. - it’s a little disingenuous to say “no adapters” when in fact their little expansion cards are merely adapters that insert into the chassis of the laptop. Only four I/O ports is a little tight (des…

The arrow keys were an interesting challenge. We actually prototyped both versions, and the full height ones ended up feeling better to most folks. It's definitely a matter of personal preference though. The Framework Laptop comes in at 15.85mm thick and 1.3kg. So a couple of sheets of paper thicker than a 13" MacBook Pro, but a bit lighter. On the Expansion Cards, that is fair. We can say we're getting rid of the ne…

The arrow keys gap as an option would be awesome, I hope you reconsider

Re: The Framework Laptop

#602

Post by zepearl »

GordonS wrote: post #526
zepearl wrote: post #447

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll add that I'm looking since forever for a 16+/17'' *thin" laptop (currently using a Lenovo P71, which is a brick) - for some reason nowadays there are hundreds of 13/14/15'' laptops which are thin, but 17'' are always huge - the only thin one that exists, as far as I know, is the LG Gram 17, which is not available with my country's keyboard layout (Swiss German). Very important things for me would be the keyboard…

Yeah, reason I asked is that I find 13" just a wee bit too small for my liking, so it would be nice to have the option of something just a little bigger. Not 17" tho, even if it was light (it wouldn't be), it would be massive. Years back I got lumbered with a 17" CAD laptop from work, an HP I think. It weighed 5-6kg, which was ridiculous - I ended up with grazing all over my shoulder from my backpack! Luckily I manag…

Sorry, I did misuse a bit your post to just add as well my own personal wish (as you anyway mentioned 16''...), but I'm sorry if it gave you the impression of me wanting to interfere with your own wishes, I absolutely didn't mean to :P

I agree about 13'' - a little bit too small. I currently own as well a 14'' Lenovo X1 Carbon (4th gen) and I personally think that that's perfect to carry around and to work with (I do use it as well at home from time to time) (newer models have an even thinner bezel, which makes them even better).

Yes, I absolutely agree that 17'' are quite a challenge to carry around (I remember that many years ago when I was walking around in Manchester with a thick Asus 17'' in my backpack, after a few KMs I started realizing that that was a mistake, hehe) - my usecase would be to use it mostly just at home or at least when not changing too often the workplace.

Re: The Framework Laptop

#603

Post by PhasmaFelis »

boogies wrote: post #407
throwaway894345 wrote: post #372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've still never seen a PC with a sane touchpad. That's the first issue in a long tail of grievances with the PC laptop ecosystem. EDIT: This isn't a generic "pro-Mac" dig, I want a nice PC laptop because I like dabbling with Linux; however, even the high end trackpads are clunky, even with the pre-installed Windows (never mind the eternal sadness that is Linux trackpad configuration).

I’ve never understood why people⁰ care so much about trackpads. For working with text (including code) keyboards are better, and for gaming mice are better. Where I'm less sure is graphics and video, but it seems to me like specialized mice, graphics tablets, and other tools (eg. https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/davinciresolve/key... and https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/davinciresolve/pan... ) are b…

> I’ve never understood why people⁰ care so much about trackpads.

Because it's nice to be able to use my laptop without having to find a tabletop and dig out my mouse. In bed, on the couch, on a bus, as a passenger in a car.

Smartphones have taken over a lot of those situations, but a small laptop is still much better for a lot of tasks. I don't use Macs anymore, but their touchpads are actually as precise as a good mouse, and it just feels really nice.

Same thing with knobs and graphics tablets, though it's not a use case I have personally. A dedicated peripheral is probably more powerful and precise, but sometimes it's nice to use your laptop from your lap.

Re: The Framework Laptop

#604

Post by boogies »

BugsJustFindMe wrote: post #560
boogies wrote: post #407

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve never understood why people⁰ care so much about trackpads. For working with text (including code) keyboards are better, and for gaming mice are better. Where I'm less sure is graphics and video, but it seems to me like specialized mice, graphics tablets, and other tools (eg. https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/davinciresolve/key... and https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/davinciresolve/pan... ) are b…

> I’ve never understood why people⁰ care so much about trackpads. ... would be better done with a specialized non-keyboard, non-trackpad input device So you want a specialized input devices for every task on a mobile device. That's an interesting choice. And I guess you also want to carry all these specialized devices around with you? > browsing¹, which IMO should be a slightly glorified text task where Pentadacyl/lu…

> uhh...tab tab tab tab tab

Please take a minute to type the name of any of the browsers I named into your favourite search engine or package manager and return when you know what we’re talking about. (This comment was made via Pentadactyl).

> The vast majority of all computer interaction is putting the cursor in the right place in the first place.

This is why it pains me to use browsers where I can’t tap [count]gi to focus input fields.

Re: The Framework Laptop

#605

Post by boogies »

BugsJustFindMe wrote: post #576
boogies wrote: post #499

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Your point is only correct if you replace the word "most" with "my." The fact that trackpads are hugely popular indicates that your needs are not typical, and you should not impose your choices upon others with different needs. But Apple trackpads are not hugely popular, they have a fraction (~10%, likely less) of the global market. Does the fact that non-Apple computers are hugely popular indicate that the needs of…

> But Apple trackpads are not hugely popular, they have a fraction (~10%, likely less) of the global market. The person you're replying to said "trackpads are popular" with no mention of Apple. Your entire argument so far has been against trackpads in general. Why shift goalposts?

The comment I was replying to was ~⅔ quasi argumentum ad populum. So I replied to their quasi argumentum ad populum with examples of it applied to the broader context of the thread, including the comment I originally replied to, and replied to their other argument with counterpoints both with and without Apple hardware.

Re: The Framework Laptop

#606

Post by arianvanp »

dfgdghdf wrote: post #268

Reading down the proposed spec sheet, I'm starting to see how crappy the competition is! * Apple MacBook - Nothing configurable. Expensive and not build to be repaired. * Microsoft Surface - Much the same, but with Windows * Lenovo Thinkpad - A little more configurable than a MacBook, and much better value, but still difficult to repair. Missing premium features like an Aluminium case. * Dell XPS 13 - Much like the L…

> * Lenovo Thinkpad - A little more configurable than a MacBook, and much better value, but still difficult to repair. Missing premium features like an Aluminium case.

difficult to repair? They're super easy to repair! My T430 even came with a bay to access the RAM and hard drive without opening the case up.

Also replacing things like keyboard usually is only 2 screws even on the newer models.

All screws are standard philips too.

Lenovo also published comprehensive repair guides for all their thinkpad laptops.

Re: The Framework Laptop

#607

Post by fortran77 »

mottosso wrote: post #448
throwaway894345 wrote: post #372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've still never seen a PC with a sane touchpad. That's the first issue in a long tail of grievances with the PC laptop ecosystem. EDIT: This isn't a generic "pro-Mac" dig, I want a nice PC laptop because I like dabbling with Linux; however, even the high end trackpads are clunky, even with the pre-installed Windows (never mind the eternal sadness that is Linux trackpad configuration).

I felt that way until I got my hands on a Surface Book. They did a good job on that one, still holding up after 4+ years of constant use.

I'm using a Surface Book 2 right now, and it's -- by far -- the best laptop I've ever owned.

Re: The Framework Laptop

#608

Post by jessaustin »

reaperducer wrote: post #485
boogies wrote: post #407

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve never understood why people⁰ care so much about trackpads. For working with text (including code) keyboards are better, and for gaming mice are better. Where I'm less sure is graphics and video, but it seems to me like specialized mice, graphics tablets, and other tools (eg. https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/davinciresolve/key... and https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/davinciresolve/pan... ) are b…

my point is that most tasks are either ① best done in a good text editing / development environment Your point is only correct if you replace the word "most" with "my." The fact that trackpads are hugely popular indicates that your needs are not typical, and you should not impose your choices upon others with different needs. would be better done with a specialized non-keyboard, non-trackpad input device Show me a be…

Show me a better multi-purpose input device that I can use to rotate objects on a screen.

The obvious answer to the challenge is a touchscreen.

Re: The Framework Laptop

#609

Post by maxharris »

One of the few things I like about my 13" MacBook Pro is that it isn't wedge-shaped, and the exterior design minimizes the number of lines and shapes a user sees from the outside. The chassis used in the Framework laptop is busy in comparison. I hope they decide to simplify the external design - this one is too busy, so I won't buy it.

I don't like the way Apple is so user- and programmer-hostile, so the Framework laptop does have that going for it. I'm interested in this concept!

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