Amazon Sends ‘Vote No’ Instructions to Unionizing Employees • Hacker News Board

Re: Amazon Sends ‘Vote No’ Instructions to Unionizing Employees

#441

Post by Bedon292 » Thu, Feb 25, 2021, 9:24 PM UTC

lotsofpulp wrote: post #278

criddell wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder how price sensitive Amazon shoppers actually are. I know I buy from there mostly because of the low friction and wide selection. I rarely check prices.

I'm assuming the people working at Amazon are capable of figuring that out, and since the prices on Amazon are not higher than the other retailers, they have concluded their customers are price sensitive. Otherwise Amazon is leaving money on the table by not already charging higher prices, which is a bet I would not make.

I have many times found things more expensive on Amazon than other sources. Most of that I put down to shipping being factored into their prices, vs added in at the end for online retailers or just being aggregated across the whole inventory of physical retailers. But a big factor is time to me is time. I can get this thing for $2 cheaper at the store, but then it would be a dedicated trip out for something I can have on my doorstep in the morning.

Re: Amazon Sends ‘Vote No’ Instructions to Unionizing Employees

#442

Post by throwaway894345 » Thu, Feb 25, 2021, 9:26 PM UTC

shmageggy wrote: post #403

throwaway894345 wrote: post #380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for responding. For what it's worth, I fully agree that wealth inequality is one of the most important issues in America . On many policy issues, I'm progressive . But I just can't get behind political propaganda ('advocacy', if that's easier to swallow) billing itself as 'journalism', which I believe should ultimately be about seeking the truth (and ergo a pursuit of neutrality and objectivity). Journalism is…

> ’journalism', which I believe should ultimately be about seeking the truth (and ergo a pursuit of neutrality and objectivity) This doesn’t exist. I haven’t yet given up hope that it could someday exist, but as far as I can tell it doesn’t currently. Would love to be proven wrong though.

A perfectly neutral and objective journalism hasn't existed, but the aspiration toward neutrality and objectivity have existed and even been mainstream at points in our history. In my lifetime, it's a relatively recent phenomena that media outlets were openly biased, viewing their function as "activism" rather than truth-seeking.

Re: Amazon Sends ‘Vote No’ Instructions to Unionizing Employees

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Post by secfirstmd » Thu, Feb 25, 2021, 9:27 PM UTC

staticautomatic wrote: post #313

dillondoyle wrote: post #256

There are a couple mentions but no top comments: Amazon has installed a mailbox at their facility, this mail piece specifically says to use it. AND this mail piece says 'BE DONE by 3/1' when workers have until the end of the month to vote (context: amazon must stop anti-union mandatory meetings etc during voting). This could be a legal violation & is a big deal. I think at a minimum breaks the spirit of the NLRB mail…

They hired actual fucking Pinkertons, which says enough about how aggressive they are. The gloves have been off for a while now.

Pinkerton are the corporate security company of choice for a lot of organisations...including Facebook

Re: Amazon Sends ‘Vote No’ Instructions to Unionizing Employees

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Post by throwaway894345 » Thu, Feb 25, 2021, 9:33 PM UTC

faitswulff wrote: post #421

throwaway894345 wrote: post #380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for responding. For what it's worth, I fully agree that wealth inequality is one of the most important issues in America . On many policy issues, I'm progressive . But I just can't get behind political propaganda ('advocacy', if that's easier to swallow) billing itself as 'journalism', which I believe should ultimately be about seeking the truth (and ergo a pursuit of neutrality and objectivity). Journalism is…

You seem to be conflating neutrality and objectivity with bipartisanship. It's pretty obvious that there is only one party in the USA that even pretends to value neutrality and objectivity, and it's not the party that elected Donald Trump.

No one is talking about bipartisanship. I chose my words deliberately; there is no subtext. :)

Re: Amazon Sends ‘Vote No’ Instructions to Unionizing Employees

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Post by mytailorisrich » Thu, Feb 25, 2021, 9:38 PM UTC

walshemj wrote: post #432

mytailorisrich wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Europe, at least in some countries, forming a union is a right and there is no need to organise a ballot so companies can do much less to prevent it but they obviously still do all they can. As long as they act within the law it's fair game really because it's obviously not in a company's interest to have unions.

Forming is one thing actually getting recognition is much harder.

Again, this depends on the country. Where forming an union is a right, the obligation for the company to recognise it may also be the law.

For example on France there are unions at Amazon and they are recognised. Why? Because in law there is nothing Amazon can do about either.

This is annoying for companies but it cuts down on the BS.

Re: Amazon Sends ‘Vote No’ Instructions to Unionizing Employees

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Post by TaylorAlexander » Thu, Feb 25, 2021, 9:42 PM UTC

soperj wrote: post #345

vertex-four wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you have multiple jobs and must take every hour they ask of you, you clearly do not have time to find another job; you are very likely working more than a full-time job without adequate protections. Look, here’s how it goes: 1) you have no job 2) you take the first job that comes your way, even if it doesn’t actually pay enough to survive - a little money is better than no money 3) you take the second job that com…

if you have multiple jobs, you already have another job, so it was clearly possible.

No. It means it’s possible to find a second job when you only have one. It doesn’t mean that once you’ve found a second job you still have time to search for an improved job.

Re: Amazon Sends ‘Vote No’ Instructions to Unionizing Employees

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Post by throwaway894345 » Thu, Feb 25, 2021, 9:48 PM UTC

kick wrote: post #382

throwaway894345 wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm genuinely not sure if this is sarcasm or not. Teen Vogue is certainly surprisingly serious, but my standard for "solid journalism" involves some attempt at neutrality and objectivity as opposed to hyper-partisan ideology marketed to children. To be quite clear, the overall modern media landscape is highly partisan and sensationalist; Teen Vogue mostly only stands out in that they're marketing their divisive ideol…

Journalism was rarely feigning objectiveness: during the 1920s through the 1970s, some of the strongest voices in favor of labor were journalists. "Neutrality" is largely a construct, or meme, that has been pushed by Rupert Murdoch since he founded his "news" network. Naturally, his own properties are nowhere near objective, despite some people claiming WSJ magically escapes bias. Everything is naturally biased, the…

> Journalism was rarely feigning objectiveness

Granted. The extent to which journalism is valuable is the extent to which it is neutral and objective. When it abandons even the pursuit of truth, it becomes a social ill.

> Everything is naturally biased, the only distinction is whether an entity is open about their bias.

I don't think this is true on any level of analysis (though it is one of the most popular and obvious of mistruths). At the individual level, one can choose to counterbalance his biases or commit himself to them. He can choose to lean on rhetoric or reason. He can debate against his most competent opponents or he can choose stooges. He can choose between straw men and steel men. He can choose to be honest (if fallible) or dishonest.

At an organizational level, we can choose between orthodoxy and heterodoxy. We can have an ideological monoculture or a diverse culture. We can build a culture that calls out rhetoric and favors reason. The net result of a heterodox organization isn't the absolute lack of bias, but the bias is severely attenuated compared to the modern newsroom.

Re: Amazon Sends ‘Vote No’ Instructions to Unionizing Employees

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Post by munk-a » Thu, Feb 25, 2021, 9:48 PM UTC

syshum wrote: post #434

munk-a wrote: post #426

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is important to note that that voucher only has a fixed value so those parents choosing to send their children to private schools still need to make up the difference out of pocket. That results in a wide variety of school choice for the rich and a smaller number of choices for those less well off. This voucher results in funds being diverted from public schools while the capacity requirements on those public scho…

It is worth noting that many area;s where this has been tried the private schools were more than capable of providing better education for the same money that the public schools do since the public schools are wasteful and have no incentive to spend tax payer money wisely It is completely false to charatice a school choice program as "more choices for the rich" as the rich already have those choices, poor and middle…

> I am sure you are a huge supporter of the Public School System and see nothing systemically wrong with it. We disagree with this position.

I do actually see a lot wrong with the school system, I think the fact that education is largely funded from local property taxes goes strongly against most ideals around American opportunity and that the highly localized management means that a cartel of local officials can run a system into the ground with only limited options available to the DoEd to address is quite problematic.

There's a bunch of things wrong with the school system, certainly, but I can't see how partial privatization would do anything but exacerbate the issues.

Re: Amazon Sends ‘Vote No’ Instructions to Unionizing Employees

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Post by harry8 » Thu, Feb 25, 2021, 9:49 PM UTC

secfirstmd wrote: post #443

staticautomatic wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They hired actual fucking Pinkertons, which says enough about how aggressive they are. The gloves have been off for a while now.

Pinkerton are the corporate security company of choice for a lot of organisations...including Facebook

Things that don't make me feel better about something:

"No it's actually ok, facebook also does it."

Re: Amazon Sends ‘Vote No’ Instructions to Unionizing Employees

#450

Post by pseudalopex » Thu, Feb 25, 2021, 9:52 PM UTC

yohannparis wrote: post #250

arachnids wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Right to work" is American euphemism for your employer being able to fire you at will for no cause

It mostly means that you are not forced to be part of a union to work. Which is something I agree with. But I highly encourage people to be part of an union.

You can never be forced to join a union. Federal law forces unions to represent non members. "Right to work" means non members can force them to do it for free. Other states let unions force non members to pay for what the union is forced to provide them.