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The Framework Laptop

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Re: The Framework Laptop

#541

Post by w0mbat »

dfgdghdf wrote: post #268

Reading down the proposed spec sheet, I'm starting to see how crappy the competition is! * Apple MacBook - Nothing configurable. Expensive and not build to be repaired. * Microsoft Surface - Much the same, but with Windows * Lenovo Thinkpad - A little more configurable than a MacBook, and much better value, but still difficult to repair. Missing premium features like an Aluminium case. * Dell XPS 13 - Much like the L…

Intel processors are done in the laptop market. I'll stick with fast, silent, ARM based machines like the M1 MacBooks.

Re: The Framework Laptop

#542

Post by BugsJustFindMe »

neilparikh wrote: post #517
kayodelycaon wrote: post #478

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I’ve never understood why people care so much about trackpads. Because most people don't use vim and mice aren't usable unless you're sitting at a flat surface with the room to hold one. If I'm using my laptop on the couch, a trackpad is probably the best solution. (Trackpoint gave my index finger RSI, when I was was being careful.)

> mice aren't usable unless you're sitting at a flat surface with the room to hold one Trackball mice a good solution to this problem. I had work on a bed without a table for 2 weeks last year, and a trackball mouse ended up working great (I didn't like using the trackpad, since switching from the keyboard to trackpad on a laptop is fairly uncomfortable if you do it often enough).

> a trackball mouse ended up working great (I didn't like using the trackpad, since switching from the keyboard to trackpad on a laptop is fairly uncomfortable

Switching from the keyboard to something an inch away is uncomfortable for you, but switching from the keyboard to something a foot away is not? I don't get it.

Re: The Framework Laptop

#543

Post by folkrav »

gonehome wrote: post #198
folkrav wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thinkpads are far from being uniformly good, some models flat out suck. Macs aren't immune to lemons either - see all the issues with their keyboards after 2016, or the failing GPUs in some MBPs. Some XPSes are good, but many models had horrible coil whine as well. The LG gram was fine, if light and portable was what you're looking for. The HP Envy line has been pretty decent recently. Back in school I've had an Asus…

Yeah I’m with you that even in the categories I mentioned there are problems. System76 comes up a lot, but to be blunt they seem awful. Bad resolution displays, generally terrible build, bezels, etc. I think there’s a market for a really good non Mac laptop with Mac quality hardware design.

My point was, those high end machines that compete with mac laptops already exist. XPS, HP Spectre, Surface laptop, higher end ThinkPads and ZenBooks, Razer Blade Stealth and Pro...

As for S76 systems, you can't really compare a $2000+ Macbook with a $1000 System76/Clevo ODM with the same criteria. They're just perfectly fine machines for what they cost.

Re: The Framework Laptop

#544

Post by wiredfool »

neilparikh wrote: post #517
kayodelycaon wrote: post #478

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I’ve never understood why people care so much about trackpads. Because most people don't use vim and mice aren't usable unless you're sitting at a flat surface with the room to hold one. If I'm using my laptop on the couch, a trackpad is probably the best solution. (Trackpoint gave my index finger RSI, when I was was being careful.)

> mice aren't usable unless you're sitting at a flat surface with the room to hold one Trackball mice a good solution to this problem. I had work on a bed without a table for 2 weeks last year, and a trackball mouse ended up working great (I didn't like using the trackpad, since switching from the keyboard to trackpad on a laptop is fairly uncomfortable if you do it often enough).

Trackball mice are thick, and inevitably got schmutz in the bearings and got slow. Then you'd have to open them up and clean them out.

Trackpads were a great upgrade to laptops when they happened, even though at the time, excessive moisture screwed up the trackpad, to the point that I needed to have a dime handy to put my finger on for a half hour after getting out of the shower.

(Source: I've used mac portables since the PB 100, including most of the major versions)

Re: The Framework Laptop

#545

Post by jki275 »

tstrimple wrote: post #433
Eric_WVGG wrote: post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure what you need "tons of adaptors and wires" for since you're only talking about SD cards, but to address that one example: what percentage of laptop users are professional photographers? One percent? A quarter? There are at least six fashion photographers in my apartment building and even I know they're a negligible slice of the population. Apple should not be designing their laptops around the needs of 1…

How far do we take this? What percentage of Macbook users use the tilde key? How many users open the terminal? What percentage of users use multiple desktops? The reason Excel remains the dominant spreadsheet software is because it has dozens of features that other spreadsheet applications don't have. Each one of those features is only used by a small portion of the user base but if you add up the users which use at…

Nope.

The reason that Excel remains the dominant spreadsheet software is that it's the best spreadsheet out there, and it's almost universally installed on all school and business computers.

Re: The Framework Laptop

#546

Post by codezero »

GordonS wrote: post #445
wishinghand wrote: post #352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's strange to see a complaint about the Apple trackpad, because whenever I use a non-Apple laptop, I despair at the trackpad. The current design is too large, but the pre-USB-C models had a perfect size and UX. I haven't ever experienced an equal.

The Apple trackpad seems to be really polarising - I often this see on HN: fans surprised anyone would dislike it, and opponents surprised anyone would like it! Personally, I'm in the latter camp. I have a 13" MBP, and find the buttons need way too much pressure, even with the sensitivity ramped up. There's also something I can't quantify... there's a feeling of it being laggy, and somehow "unpleasant" to drag my fin…

I suspect it has something to do with their typing habits and/or some physical issue.

Personally, the newest Macbooks became a problem for me despite the history of amazing palm rejection on Macbooks, I have sort of sweaty hands and when they increased the trackpad size, that combined with how I type (palm resting on the chassis, not raised), it causes a lot of jitter (I say a lot, it's super rare, but just enough to train me away from it) and I've ended up using an external mouse exclusively, but in the past year, uh, I haven't been mobile so that's just a nonissue :)

Re: The Framework Laptop

#547

Post by GordonS »

freeone3000 wrote: post #500
GordonS wrote: post #477

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do any of the modern Thinkpads offer user-replaceable parts? Any time I see Thinkpads recommend on HN, it's for older, 2nd hand laptops. Also, do any of such Thinkpads approach the lightness, thinness and aesthetic of this laptop? Last time I looked at new Thinkpads, I seem to recall they were pretty chunky, with only the Ideapads being thin, light and nice to look at (it was a while ago, so I might have that wrong t…

The framework laptop is 16mm thick and 1.5kg. Those are the dimensions of a ThinkPad T480 and its successors. (As in, the framework laptop is not as thin or as light as you're assuming -- it's "standard" laptop size, not Ultrabook)

According to the specs, this laptop is actually only 1.3kg and 15.8mm thick.

As a couple of comparisons, the XPS 13 is 1.27kg and 14.8mm thick; the MBP 13 is 1.4kg and 1.56mm thick; the ThinkPad X1 Nano is 1.18kg and 13.87mm thick.

Note you have to compromise with the X1 Nano, as it maxes out at only 16GB of RAM, and doesn't have great battery life.

So this is lighter than an MBP, and basically the same thickness, all while being upgradable - you haven't convinced me that this isn't witchcraft ;)

Re: The Framework Laptop

#548

Post by dvdkon »

wongarsu wrote: post #53
SloopJon wrote: post #33

One of the repair challenges is access to old parts. The drain hose on our three year-old washer sprung a leak. When I called a repair man, he at first said that Samsung doesn't make that part anymore. Fortunately, he was mistaken, but if that's something that happens for a simple hose, imagine trying to replace the "high-end headphone amp" expansion card on this laptop five years from now. Even if I'm not too excite…

On the other hand in the laptop space I've never had problems with part availability. With brands like Dell or Lenovo there are plenty of new and used parts available on ebay or your trusted reseller, and official service handbooks are easy to download. The real value-add of the framework laptop is imho the upgrade path: you can swap in newer components without replacing nearly everything. Usually that's limited to j…

It actually is a problem for cheaper laptops whose exact SKUs often don't last more than half a year, which is my primary reason for buying "business" laptops.

Re: The Framework Laptop

#550

Post by throwaway894345 »

boogies wrote: post #499
reaperducer wrote: post #485

Earlier quoted context omitted.

my point is that most tasks are either ① best done in a good text editing / development environment Your point is only correct if you replace the word "most" with "my." The fact that trackpads are hugely popular indicates that your needs are not typical, and you should not impose your choices upon others with different needs. would be better done with a specialized non-keyboard, non-trackpad input device Show me a be…

>Your point is only correct if you replace the word "most" with "my." The fact that trackpads are hugely popular indicates that your needs are not typical, and you should not impose your choices upon others with different needs. But Apple trackpads are not hugely popular, they have a fraction (~10%, likely less) of the global market. Does the fact that non-Apple computers are hugely popular indicate that the needs of…

You... you do realize that you can’t order a PC laptop with a Mac trackpad, right? No one is like, “I could have the Mac trackpad for the same cost, but I prefer the stuttery trackpad that moves the cursor and selects shit when my palm gets too close”.
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