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Amazon Sends ‘Vote No’ Instructions to Unionizing Employees

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Re: Amazon Sends ‘Vote No’ Instructions to Unionizing Employees

#391

Post by whoisjuan »

ahelwer wrote: post #381
whoisjuan wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Definitely not illegal. You think Amazon, one of the largest companies in the world, will engage in any anti-union campaign without consulting their lawyers on what's right and what's not? It's ok if this is doesn't sit well on you. As I said in the parent comment, if unions were easy they wouldn't make sense. Things companies that have unions or are dealing with unionization efforts can do [1]: - Describe the good f…

> You think Amazon, one of the largest companies in the world, will engage in any anti-union campaign without consulting their lawyers on what's right and what's not? This is staggeringly naive about both how large companies & the legal system operate.

Really? So you think corporations don't use their lawyers before they do things? They just go and do whatever without assessing the risks? I think is actually naive to think otherwise. You can still feel something is illegal even though you have the clear of your legal team. I'm not debating that. Also you could take decisions on gray areas against the advice of your lawyers. I'm not debating that either.

I would like to understand your side? How is my take staggeringly naive?

Re: Amazon Sends ‘Vote No’ Instructions to Unionizing Employees

#392

Post by missedthecue »

ModernMech wrote: post #344
missedthecue wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You really think the only reason they increased their labor costs by billions is because a now irrelevant populist from Vermont doesn't like rich people?

Bernie Sanders is now the Chair of the Senate Budget Committee. He's not irrelevant, that's a position with actual power. His committee is the one from which the current 1.9T stimulus bill originates, for instance. That bill doesn't get passed without going through him first. That's far from irrelevant.

The degree of power he is still technically holding on to does not change my point.

Re: Amazon Sends ‘Vote No’ Instructions to Unionizing Employees

#393

Post by thebigspacefuck »

proverbialbunny wrote: post #389

Does anyone have an alternative site they go to to buy household goods than amazon.com? Mostly kitchen supplies. Amazon often sells items lower quality than Walmart. It sucks and it feels like they have a monopoly. I'd rather shop anywhere else. edit: Maybe https://www.bedbathandbeyond.com/ ? I haven't bought anything there, but I might try it if there are not better recommendations.

Target is pretty good. One of my local Kroger has a large household goods section. Both have curbside pickup or delivery and prices are decent.

Re: Amazon Sends ‘Vote No’ Instructions to Unionizing Employees

#394

Post by [deleted] »

missedthecue wrote: post #295
AlexandrB wrote: post #6

Amazon's tactics in response to unionizing efforts been extremely revealing. Even if unionizing fails, I'm happy that it forced Amazon to show us all the level of contempt they have for their workforce.

To their workforce or to a potential cartel they'd be federally forced to deal with?

[deleted]

Re: Amazon Sends ‘Vote No’ Instructions to Unionizing Employees

#395

Post by estaseuropano »

dheera wrote: post #370
flyt wrote: post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unions need more than a Discord to organize. They may need to compensate union leadership for time taken to organize away from their work duties, pay for events, pay for mailers and other communications infrastructure, and of course pay for professionals like labor lawyers. No union will have much luck performing collective bargaining against Amazon without working alongside experienced lawyers. These costs don't hav…

> pay for events What events? If it's to discuss a certain issue, that can be virtual and almost free. If it's a social event, meh, there are enough of those already and people can self-organize them. Hell for $500/month I could organize social events where everyone goes to Michelin 3-star restaurants every month and rants over gourmet dinners about their bosses. > pay for mailers and other communications infrastruct…

Alright, split the fees! Now you need someone to count the days paid out, calculate how much each member has to pay, send payment requests, follow up, manage the account, ...

A professional Union needs funds to do its work. Over time the benefits members get more than pay for the union dues. If there's a strike at least in Europe the union will also use the dues to cover the salary for the days striking.

The imaginary alternative would be to have somebody do this for free in their evenings and on their weekends. Have you ever tried to manage even a class representative and budget for your kids' school or a little league or any other kind of long-term engagement? Already at that small scale things tend to break down quote easily and few stay involved more than a few years. How can you expect volunteer union reps to work 8h+/day, spend their nights writing legal briefs, researching, organising events, managing members and expenses, etc while being up against an army of professional lawyers?

Unions brought the five day work week, end to child labour, 40/38 hour weeks, the right to breaks, vacations, medical leave, ... If you don't have those right now then that's likely because you are in a non-union workplace (and/or country).

Re: Amazon Sends ‘Vote No’ Instructions to Unionizing Employees

#396

Post by oliv__ »

fireball_blaze wrote: post #107
sodality2 wrote: post #2

Detailed, 6 step instructions on how to open a ballot and mark no? Thanks, amazon. This is almost as scummy as asking the city to change traffic lights so union organizers have a harder time talking to workers in between shifts. https://www.al.com/business/2021/02/jefferson-county-now-say...

Also reference Amazon's "Do it without dues" site: https://www.doitwithoutdues.com/

That website feels like it should be in a museum

Re: Amazon Sends ‘Vote No’ Instructions to Unionizing Employees

#397

Post by Bakary »

aktschually wrote: post #363
CobrastanJorji wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But see, when your union negotiates, the result is uncertain. It might end up with you getting more money, with you getting the same amount of money, or with your union rep murdering a baby and then framing you for the crime. Do you really want to take that chance?

Or it might end up with you losing your job to a robot.

People will lose their jobs en masse regardless of unions. The concentration of wealth and capture of surplus that we will see in the coming decades will probably make feudalism look like child's play

Re: Amazon Sends ‘Vote No’ Instructions to Unionizing Employees

#398

Post by simsla »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #387
simsla wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not just about wages. I think Amazon has actually made great strides by raising their minimum wages to $15/h. According to US stats the monetary benefit from unionising is about +11% on average. By offering twice the federal minimum, it's possible that Amazon is already above that. Now, you can argue that minimum wage should be higher still, but that's a separate discussion. I don't think we should pretend that…

>which is why I think this needs to be approached in a structural way. The answer is federal legislation. How break time, overtime after certain # of work hours in a day, parental leave. If we want people to have a certain quality of life at work, I don't see any purpose directing any energy at certain large employers. All efforts should be direct to politicians, who we can vote in, to provide that quality of life at…

I do agree that a top-down approach is preferable, but in the meantime I still see self-organising and collective bargaining as a good thing.

Re: Amazon Sends ‘Vote No’ Instructions to Unionizing Employees

#399

Post by shmageggy »

faitswulff wrote: post #53
Zealotux wrote: post #10

From a non-US point of view, this whole anti-union strategy from Amazon is somehow hilarious to witness on top of being sad. This kind of propaganda feels like its coming from another age, or dimension.

Amazon literally employs a union busting company from the last century (edit: from two centuries ago, apparently): > The Pinkerton National Detective Agency was founded as a private police force in Chicago in 1850, and quickly expanded its reach; its detectives initially focused on catching thieves and burglars, but soon became the bane of the labor movement for their work as enthusiastic, vicious strikebreakers. Thr…

I’ve seen Teen Vogue pop up a few times in recent years. Seems like a mix of deeper coverage is working out well for them https://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2016/12/te...

Re: Amazon Sends ‘Vote No’ Instructions to Unionizing Employees

#400

Post by alasdair_ »

worker767424 wrote: post #258
sudosysgen wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unions are at least nominally directly elected by their constituents and beholden to them, which is why they are protected when engaging in politics. If you think they do not represent them, then maybe the solution is to develop better union structures that are more democratic and representative. But by and large, teachers do not support the Libertarian party and instead favour the Democratic party, quite heavily in…

One thing I'd like to see is competing unions. The UAW supplies labor to the big three US automakers, putting them in an unfair negotiating advantage; the UAW can easily bully them around. The UAW ultimately hurt themselves because it put the Big Three at a big competitive disadvantage. Some manufacturing left for right-to-work states, and some business left for (mostly) Japanese automakers.

In other countries (e.g. the UK), this is exactly how unions work.
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