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Amazon Sends ‘Vote No’ Instructions to Unionizing Employees

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Re: Amazon Sends ‘Vote No’ Instructions to Unionizing Employees

#91

Post by pitaj »

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #55
ahelwer wrote: post #7

This Amazon union vote is one of the few things I see around me in the world where things have a chance of heading in the right direction. Truly hoping it succeeds and creates a nucleation event to stop our march into ever-more-innovative methods of worker exploitation.

I felt this was about Uber being told they had to treat drivers like employees in California too, and look how that turned out: A dystopian rule that lawmakers can't overturn to enable worker exploitation.

Classifying gig workers as employees was a terrible idea. Not to mention the law that did so had so many exclusions it was ridiculous.

Generally, we should be moving away from linking health insurance and other benefits to employment.

Re: Amazon Sends ‘Vote No’ Instructions to Unionizing Employees

#92

Post by durnygbur »

btown wrote: post #23
maxehmookau wrote: post #3

Ugh, this is disgusting and so patronising. Edit: Also, why are "union avoidance consultants" a thing? The US needs to fix its culture around unions. That's absolutely wild.

The US has had an "us vs. them" mindset towards unions since the 19th century: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_union_busting_in_th... Back then, titans of industry hired Pinkertons to attack and kill striking workers. Now, they buy media companies and tech companies that are designed to incentivize viewers to violently threaten the politicians and organizers who support striking workers. It's the same contin…

> Now, they buy media companies and tech companies that are designed to incentivize viewers

Now they still hire Pinkerton to know what the employees are up to ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ [1]

[1] https://www.npr.org/2020/11/30/940196997/amazon-reportedly-h...

Re: Amazon Sends ‘Vote No’ Instructions to Unionizing Employees

#93

Post by Ozzie_osman »

onion2k wrote: post #71
Zealotux wrote: post #10

From a non-US point of view, this whole anti-union strategy from Amazon is somehow hilarious to witness on top of being sad. This kind of propaganda feels like its coming from another age, or dimension.

I'm going to assume you're not in the UK, because this is straight out of UK government's playbook during the 70s and 80s when they were union busting the mining and engineering unions. The page on Wikipedia about the union leader Derek Robinson is an eye-opener ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derek_Robinson_(trade_unionist... ) ... pay close attention to the work of MI5 in bringing his union activity to an end.

There was a pretty big smear campaign against Arthur Scargill too. https://www.workersliberty.org/story/2017-07-26/miners-strik...

Re: Amazon Sends ‘Vote No’ Instructions to Unionizing Employees

#94

Post by EliRivers »

skeeter2020 wrote: post #73
lucasmullens wrote: post #30

How does this not backfire? At Google I'm just sitting on the sidelines with the whole union thing, but if they sent me something like this I'd join and support the union immediately.

That doesn't make any sense. You're saying you have made some sort of value judgement, presumably based on logic and information, but if someone sends you a piece of propaganda you'd totally change your position? You don' t play poker, do you?

I expect he's human, rather than Homo Economicus.

Many humans, when treated with contempt and addressed as if he's a gullible moron by someone who patronisingly tries to lead him into a decision explicitly to that patronising jerk's advantage, often dislikes it to the point of generating what we might call the "fuck you, I won't do what you tell me" response. People who play poker yet somehow aren't familiar with humans will struggle playing against them.

Re: Amazon Sends ‘Vote No’ Instructions to Unionizing Employees

#95

Post by balabaster »

Full disclosure: I've always been anti-union for my own personal approach to life. I do see the value in unions, I've just always, to this point, been a go-it-alone-and-fight-my-own-battles kind of person. I don't want to be beholden to a union or their rules any more than I want to be beholden to an employer beyond my contractual obligations for which I'm paid.

That said, people should take note of what happened when Walmart used these tactics. Employees then went on to suffer such things as zero hour contracts, contracts where time was just shy of the legal requirement to give them benefits, pay was no more than the minimum required in any given state/province and people became slaves to their jobs because they couldn't afford the time off to find other jobs because then they wouldn't be able to make ends meet or there were no other jobs so Walmart had zero incentive to pay any more than absolutely required to by law. etc. etc. etc. because humanity is only afforded if legally required [which I personally find disgusting].

These are tactics to prevent a coalition of employees from having their rights heard and maintained... even with this coalition someone is fighting to maintain and win your rights(!!!!!) There's something very wrong with anyone having to fight for their rights to be given, but that's another discussion. In a commercial environment that allow employers to behave this way, where the only advantage to winning your rights is in a coalition of the workforce holding employers to account, unions absolutely must not only be allowed but must also be protected.

Its okay if you're bullheaded enough or within your means enough to walk away if your rights aren't given fair consideration and honoured, but if you're in a position where you're a prisoner to your job, i.e. can't afford to take time off to find another job/other income, or there are no other jobs in your area and you don't have the means to leave etc. you don't have any bargaining chip.

No employer should ever have the privilege of keeping you prisoner, nor preventing you from having a means to bargain for your very right to fair treatment.

Amazon needs to be severely reprimanded for this and taught a lesson about what it means to honour employees' rights.

Re: Amazon Sends ‘Vote No’ Instructions to Unionizing Employees

#96

Post by TheOtherHobbes »

mc32 wrote: post #65
rtpg wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It wasn't your boss telling you how to do that though. The direct power imbalance is pretty different, I think.

Like some unions tell their members to vote for this or that party? I’m still waiting for the Teachers’ Union to endorse the Libertarian party one day soon -I’m sure it’s gonna happen.

Why would the TU endorse the Libertarian Party when the LP has done exactly zero for teachers, and has never said or done anything to imply it has any interest whatsoever in the lives of teachers?

It's a very revealing tell that this is even being asked.

Generally, why do Libertarians seem to act as if Rest of World owes them, but relationships are solely for their personal benefit with no reciprocity of any kind?

Re: Amazon Sends ‘Vote No’ Instructions to Unionizing Employees

#97

Post by TheOtherHobbes »

chrisseaton wrote: post #84
SllX wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is weird. The literal purpose of a corporation in all its varieties, for profit, non-profit, co-op, S Corp, C Corp etc. is to pool the resources of its owners and serve their interests. Unions are just another type of corporation.

Unions serve the interests of the people with power in the union. If those interests don't align with yours, the union may be working against you and you may not want to get involved.

How is this different to corporations?

What would an organisation that serves your interests look like?

Why don't you try to start one - and see how corporate management responds?

Re: Amazon Sends ‘Vote No’ Instructions to Unionizing Employees

#98

Post by tyingq »

balabaster wrote: post #95

Full disclosure: I've always been anti-union for my own personal approach to life. I do see the value in unions, I've just always, to this point, been a go-it-alone-and-fight-my-own-battles kind of person. I don't want to be beholden to a union or their rules any more than I want to be beholden to an employer beyond my contractual obligations for which I'm paid. That said, people should take note of what happened whe…

You appear to perhaps be from the UK (saw "honour").

Employees in the UK have quite a lot more protection by default than they do in the US. I do respect your go-it-alone-and-fight-my-own-battles position, but consider that you might feel differently if you were in a US "right to work" state.

Re: Amazon Sends ‘Vote No’ Instructions to Unionizing Employees

#99

Post by HarryHirsch »

chrisseaton wrote: post #84
SllX wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is weird. The literal purpose of a corporation in all its varieties, for profit, non-profit, co-op, S Corp, C Corp etc. is to pool the resources of its owners and serve their interests. Unions are just another type of corporation.

Unions serve the interests of the people with power in the union. If those interests don't align with yours, the union may be working against you and you may not want to get involved.

On the other hand, the employer never ever serves your interest. Rachel has a something to say about performance reviews recently: https://rachelbythebay.com/w/2021/02/19/perf/

Re: Amazon Sends ‘Vote No’ Instructions to Unionizing Employees

#100

Post by fireball_blaze »

duxup wrote: post #45
coolreader18 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Read TFA - it's not just that Amazon is encouraging workers to vote no, they've set up mailboxes on-site that they're encouraging people to send their ballots with, making union organizers wary that Amazon is trying to keep tabs on who votes, even though it's supposed to be anonymous.

>making union organizers wary that Amazon is trying to keep tabs on who votes I can understand being wary, but that's all it is, wary.

How could you possibly know unless you are on the Amazon union busting team?
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