Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Amazon Sends ‘Vote No’ Instructions to Unionizing Employees

vice.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

81–90 of 632 posts

Re: Amazon Sends ‘Vote No’ Instructions to Unionizing Employees

#81

Post by whimsicalism »

ahelwer wrote: post #52
lucasmullens wrote: post #30

How does this not backfire? At Google I'm just sitting on the sidelines with the whole union thing, but if they sent me something like this I'd join and support the union immediately.

This is a pretty interesting question, and I think prods at other questions about the actual form that tech worker unions will take - especially in big companies like Google. Will they be actual organized units capable of orchestrating coordinated action to withhold labor for improvement of material conditions? Or will they just be a sort of caucus that issue statements about political issues at work and occasionally…

I think employee walkouts will bother management quite a bit. And compensation/benefit issues are political ones.

Re: Amazon Sends ‘Vote No’ Instructions to Unionizing Employees

#82

Post by TheMagicHorsey »

It's amazing how little HN readers understand about unions. A company is an organization that has some positive and some negative aspects.

And believe it or not, a union is also an organization with some negative and positive aspects.

The difference is, once you have a union in an organization its very hard to dislodge it no matter how dysfunctional it gets.

I would suggest HN readers read about what UAW did in the auto industry, particularly the way the auto union functioned at the Toyota NUMA plant in California.

Then they should read about the corruption at the Teamsters (I'm sure you have heard about the collusion between union bosses like Hoffa and the Mafia). The high profile corruption is just the tip of the iceberg. Even your local teachers union has a tremendous amount of nepotism and corruption ... its not at all meritocratic.

And the worst part about a union is that it turns the workplace from a zone where we are evaluated based on our output into a zone where politics dominates when it comes time for compensation and promotion discussions.

I will never again work in a unionized workplace ... and thanks to getting an education and learning how to program I will thankfully not have to do it ever again.

Re: Amazon Sends ‘Vote No’ Instructions to Unionizing Employees

#83

Post by willcipriano »

skeeter2020 wrote: post #73
lucasmullens wrote: post #30

How does this not backfire? At Google I'm just sitting on the sidelines with the whole union thing, but if they sent me something like this I'd join and support the union immediately.

That doesn't make any sense. You're saying you have made some sort of value judgement, presumably based on logic and information, but if someone sends you a piece of propaganda you'd totally change your position? You don' t play poker, do you?

> That doesn't make any sense. You're saying you have made some sort of value judgement, presumably based on logic and information, but if someone sends you a piece of propaganda you'd totally change your position? You don' t play poker, do you?

Sending out propaganda is a new piece of information. When someone is trying really hard to get you to believe something, or act in a particular way, that in and of itself is informative. You don't play Magic The Gathering, do you?

Re: Amazon Sends ‘Vote No’ Instructions to Unionizing Employees

#84

Post by chrisseaton »

SllX wrote: post #75
duxup wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we argue that what is wrong about the situation is the 'balance of power'... would that mean then no employer should be able to make their case when it comes to such situation because the balance of power wouldn't be fair? That seems weird. And unions once established have their own balance of power, and that's not in favor of the individual.

That is weird. The literal purpose of a corporation in all its varieties, for profit, non-profit, co-op, S Corp, C Corp etc. is to pool the resources of its owners and serve their interests. Unions are just another type of corporation.

Unions serve the interests of the people with power in the union. If those interests don't align with yours, the union may be working against you and you may not want to get involved.

Re: Amazon Sends ‘Vote No’ Instructions to Unionizing Employees

#85

Post by marcinzm »

Dirlewanger wrote: post #51
sodality2 wrote: post #2

Detailed, 6 step instructions on how to open a ballot and mark no? Thanks, amazon. This is almost as scummy as asking the city to change traffic lights so union organizers have a harder time talking to workers in between shifts. https://www.al.com/business/2021/02/jefferson-county-now-say...

Unbelievable. This is petty shit you'd expect from 100+ years ago when companies were breaking strikes by killing people. Might as well rename this country to the Corporate States of America. No level of government has any backbone against the private sector.

Yes changing the timing of some traffic lights is exactly the same as killing people.

Re: Amazon Sends ‘Vote No’ Instructions to Unionizing Employees

#86

Post by TrackerFF »

Zealotux wrote: post #10

From a non-US point of view, this whole anti-union strategy from Amazon is somehow hilarious to witness on top of being sad. This kind of propaganda feels like its coming from another age, or dimension.

In the US, almost everything boils down to money and special interest. Amazingly enough, unionization hasn't been outlawed, despite the massive efforts from industry.

Re: Amazon Sends ‘Vote No’ Instructions to Unionizing Employees

#88

Post by praestigiare »

skeeter2020 wrote: post #73
lucasmullens wrote: post #30

How does this not backfire? At Google I'm just sitting on the sidelines with the whole union thing, but if they sent me something like this I'd join and support the union immediately.

That doesn't make any sense. You're saying you have made some sort of value judgement, presumably based on logic and information, but if someone sends you a piece of propaganda you'd totally change your position? You don' t play poker, do you?

It makes sense if you consider your company sending you propaganda to be additional information relevant to whether you can trust them, and so you review your decision, which is a perfectly rational response.

Re: Amazon Sends ‘Vote No’ Instructions to Unionizing Employees

#89

Post by throwawaysea »

sodality2 wrote: post #2

Detailed, 6 step instructions on how to open a ballot and mark no? Thanks, amazon. This is almost as scummy as asking the city to change traffic lights so union organizers have a harder time talking to workers in between shifts. https://www.al.com/business/2021/02/jefferson-county-now-say...

Why is one group (union activists) allowed to take such action but the other group isn't? I am not sure I see anything "scummy" in this.

Re: Amazon Sends ‘Vote No’ Instructions to Unionizing Employees

#90

Post by rtkwe »

TheMagicHorsey wrote: post #82

It's amazing how little HN readers understand about unions. A company is an organization that has some positive and some negative aspects. And believe it or not, a union is also an organization with some negative and positive aspects. The difference is, once you have a union in an organization its very hard to dislodge it no matter how dysfunctional it gets. I would suggest HN readers read about what UAW did in the a…

If we're going to go back in time to talk about Hoffa era unions why stop there, companies used to prefer gunning down their striking/organizing employees with Pinkerton agents rather than give benefits of any kind.

With a union there's some democratic influence. You're only option for changing the company is to leave if you're anywhere below VP level.

Post reply on HN