The decline of computers as a general-purpose technology • Hacker News Board

Re: The decline of computers as a general-purpose technology

#71

Post by auggierose » Thu, Feb 25, 2021, 12:05 PM UTC

brainless wrote: post #29

blowfish721 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From my perspective I think it might feel that way because back then it was mostly tech curious people who used the internet. Now it’s mainstream and everyone is connected which means most of the content is produced for massconsumation. Back when I got my first computer and got online, in around 1996 I think, the computers were still quite expensive and I would have killes to have access to the information and tinker…

I clearly remember my friends' parents being scared of me since I used to open up PCs and see what components were in them. I have been using laptops that can not be easily opened/upgraded for the last 4-5 years. Devices are being made mainly for people to consume media and that's it. I think computers of the earlier era and now are not at all comparable. The devices now are not really "computers" as they used to be.…

I never liked to tinker with hardware. Tinkering with software was more fun, and the hardware that I can run my self-made software on is now more powerful than ever. Even an iPad, or rather, especially an iPad.

Re: The decline of computers as a general-purpose technology

#72

Post by hypertele-Xii » Thu, Feb 25, 2021, 12:22 PM UTC

javajosh wrote: post #25

brainless wrote: post #6

This is what I personally feel is just missing these days. I was never part of the leading edge of hobby computing. I was very far off, geographically, growing up a teenager in India. But back then, 1998 - 2006 ish, I feel the Internet was a lot more about experiments. I would read up on some software or hardware group all the time. LUGs were way popular. I used to be on chat rooms from MIT or other unis every other…

Software is economically worthless without making it artificially scarce. A lot of "software innovation" is not about building better software, but building software you can charge for , which means "walled gardens", patents, DRM, license servers, anti-tampering mechanisms, and the like. In essence all content (music, movies, software, books, etc) follows the same pattern. Note that profit-driven entities can give aw…

Linux is software, Linux is economically worth a lot, Linux isn't artificially scarce.

Re: The decline of computers as a general-purpose technology

#73

Post by the8472 » Thu, Feb 25, 2021, 12:22 PM UTC

ArtWomb wrote: post #2

Fab numbers are astronomical. "TSMC recently announced plans for a $19.5B 3nm plant for 2022". How can the next computing paradigm even take off when all the oxygen is depleted in chasing "proven" technologies?

What are the other options you would want to replace those proven technologies with? Sure, there are better semiconductor materials but they're expensive and already used where it makes economical sense. Nanotubes or graphene can't be handled at scale yet. Superconductors need huge contraptions for cooling. Using organic molecules is messy, see OLED. Optical parts might help, but that is difficult with silicon which brings us back to the other semiconductor options. Spintronics are already being put to use but those things have eye-watering prices.

Look at intel, even incremental changes can go wrong and cost you competitiveness.

Re: The decline of computers as a general-purpose technology

#74

Post by dsr_ » Thu, Feb 25, 2021, 12:30 PM UTC

javajosh wrote: post #25

brainless wrote: post #6

This is what I personally feel is just missing these days. I was never part of the leading edge of hobby computing. I was very far off, geographically, growing up a teenager in India. But back then, 1998 - 2006 ish, I feel the Internet was a lot more about experiments. I would read up on some software or hardware group all the time. LUGs were way popular. I used to be on chat rooms from MIT or other unis every other…

Software is economically worthless without making it artificially scarce. A lot of "software innovation" is not about building better software, but building software you can charge for , which means "walled gardens", patents, DRM, license servers, anti-tampering mechanisms, and the like. In essence all content (music, movies, software, books, etc) follows the same pattern. Note that profit-driven entities can give aw…

"Software is economically worthless without making it artificially scarce"

This is wrong, and every open-source project including OpenBSD and Linux, emacs and vim is counter-evidence.

"A lot of "software innovation" is not about building better software, but building software you can charge for" -- this is correct.

Re: The decline of computers as a general-purpose technology

#75

Post by ammojamo » Thu, Feb 25, 2021, 12:38 PM UTC

imagine99 wrote: post #66

brainless wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't get me wrong, I am not talking about myself here. I am still an absolute curious fellow. I just started learning woodworking, I am 37 years old now. I start learning something new each year. I meant the current trend of digital products which are, in my opinion, more like a TV than "computers".

What, if any, resources did you use to learn woodworking? In-person courses and hackerspaces are not available in my area right now and I wonder if there are any good online classes. And by that I'm not talking about those quick-cut YouTube videos where you need a workshop worth 50k in machinery and tools to properly follow "this one easy trick" ;-) If you have any resources you can share/recommend, I'd be very curio…

Sounds like you might like Wood Working for Mere Mortals (https://woodworkingformeremortals.com/). I haven't taken any of the courses Steve offers but I'm a huge fan of his YouTube videos.

Re: The decline of computers as a general-purpose technology

#76

Post by cosmodisk » Thu, Feb 25, 2021, 12:39 PM UTC

brainless wrote: post #6

This is what I personally feel is just missing these days. I was never part of the leading edge of hobby computing. I was very far off, geographically, growing up a teenager in India. But back then, 1998 - 2006 ish, I feel the Internet was a lot more about experiments. I would read up on some software or hardware group all the time. LUGs were way popular. I used to be on chat rooms from MIT or other unis every other…

I feel very similar. It took less than 2 decades to go from tinkers, creators,and just general curiosity, to somewhat mindless consumption of videos,or photos. When the Covid wave started last year, we had to assess who has necessary equipment at home to be able to work remotely. A lot of people don't even have a computer at home,all they need is a phone or a tablet, which are created for consumption,not to be creative with it.

Re: The decline of computers as a general-purpose technology

#77

Post by kuschku » Thu, Feb 25, 2021, 12:47 PM UTC

stavros wrote: post #68

kuschku wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 2. Hardware is very cheap, computers can be tiny, you can order components from anywhere In the past I could get any component I might need from a local store in 20 minutes. now I've got 2 weeks to 3 months turnaround on shipping from shenzhen.

In the past, there were only enough components to fill a few shelves. Also, you can get many, many components from local stores now, if you're willing to pay the 4x-10x premium. Not many people are, so local stores aren't as common.

In 2010, the local store had more components than I can order at reichelt, and was cheaper than aliexpress (if you include shipping).

I really miss having a place (back then we even had ad dozen of them in a few km distance) with a huge selection carrying every component you might ever need, and with enough technical expertise that you could show your circuit diagram and get feedback how to improve it. This is something only seen in shenzhen today.

Now I just don't do any small projects anymore as there are no stores in the entire state left, and the extreme premium in shipping and waiting time of aliexpress just isn't worth it anymore.

Re: The decline of computers as a general-purpose technology

#78

Post by matheusmoreira » Thu, Feb 25, 2021, 12:48 PM UTC

javajosh wrote: post #25

brainless wrote: post #6

This is what I personally feel is just missing these days. I was never part of the leading edge of hobby computing. I was very far off, geographically, growing up a teenager in India. But back then, 1998 - 2006 ish, I feel the Internet was a lot more about experiments. I would read up on some software or hardware group all the time. LUGs were way popular. I used to be on chat rooms from MIT or other unis every other…

Software is economically worthless without making it artificially scarce. A lot of "software innovation" is not about building better software, but building software you can charge for , which means "walled gardens", patents, DRM, license servers, anti-tampering mechanisms, and the like. In essence all content (music, movies, software, books, etc) follows the same pattern. Note that profit-driven entities can give aw…

> Software is economically worthless without making it artificially scarce.

Worthless to whom? Maybe for corporations who want to make billions by exploiting a legal monopoly. For the rest of humanity, abundant software is extremely valuable.

Re: The decline of computers as a general-purpose technology

#79

Post by visarga » Thu, Feb 25, 2021, 12:49 PM UTC

brainless wrote: post #6

This is what I personally feel is just missing these days. I was never part of the leading edge of hobby computing. I was very far off, geographically, growing up a teenager in India. But back then, 1998 - 2006 ish, I feel the Internet was a lot more about experiments. I would read up on some software or hardware group all the time. LUGs were way popular. I used to be on chat rooms from MIT or other unis every other…

> Nowadays most people I see of that age group are happy with a YouTube video on their smartphones.

YouTube is a fantastic resource for any hobby or subject. It's like a world wide university.

Re: The decline of computers as a general-purpose technology

#80

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Feb 25, 2021, 1:05 PM UTC

dsr_ wrote: post #74

javajosh wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Software is economically worthless without making it artificially scarce. A lot of "software innovation" is not about building better software, but building software you can charge for , which means "walled gardens", patents, DRM, license servers, anti-tampering mechanisms, and the like. In essence all content (music, movies, software, books, etc) follows the same pattern. Note that profit-driven entities can give aw…

"Software is economically worthless without making it artificially scarce" This is wrong, and every open-source project including OpenBSD and Linux, emacs and vim is counter-evidence. "A lot of "software innovation" is not about building better software, but building software you can charge for" -- this is correct.

[deleted]