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The U.S. Air Force just admitted the F-35 stealth fighter has failed

forbes.com

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Re: The U.S. Air Force just admitted the F-35 stealth fighter has failed

#831

Post by wombatpm »

konjin wrote: post #474
cool_dude85 wrote: post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They have to rip the government off to stave off inflation? How's inflation been looking, oh, these past 40 years or so?

I'm sure that the 50th time in the last 20 years I've heard we will have hyper inflation will be the time it happens. Any day now the house of cards build will fall and gold will be the only currency worth anything.

As I say to all the goldbugs, unless you have the gold in your physical possession, owning gold is meaningless.

And if you have it, the government has already shown it is willing and capable enough to confiscate it.

The only way to make money is to be willing to sell when things look like they are going down the drain.

And if things are ever that far gone, we are back to a barter economy.

Re: The U.S. Air Force just admitted the F-35 stealth fighter has failed

#832

Post by Retric »

greedo wrote: post #730
Retric wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The F-35 failed because fighter jet airframes aren’t particularly relevant anymore. You can stick the same sensor systems and missiles on just about anything. Improved stealth etc is useful, but F-35’s are only slightly better than 40+ year old jets. Thus hardly worth the price vs cheaply manufacturing a minor update of an older design. Or as the saying goes “quantity has a quality all it’s own.”

Oh and if you compare the flyaway cost of the F-35A to the F-16 Block 60 or 70/72, the F-35 is cheaper...

The US doesn’t have any Block 60 or 70/72 so it’s a tricky comparison due to low production numbers. Looking at the US’s actual fleet the F16 was a much cheaper aircraft and likely would have stayed at roughly those numbers.

Anyway, we already had the F22, the F35 was supposed to be the cheaper alternative and it mostly delivered on that. But now we have a very capable aircraft with far to many roles to excel at all of them while still being quite expensive to operate.

Re: The U.S. Air Force just admitted the F-35 stealth fighter has failed

#833

Post by jjeaff »

kumarvvr wrote: post #767
CoffeeDregs wrote: post #725

Putting aside the good-plane/bad-plane discussion, this program is the poster child for one of my pet wishes: that the costs of government programs would be expressed in $/tax-payer. There are about 100M tax payers in the US; this program is expected to cost about $1,500,000M; so the F35 program is expected to cost about $15,000 per tax payer. True: that's over 50 years; still, un-discounted, that's $300/year/tax-pay…

> How much of your $60,000 did you see? For that, you need to calculate the cost of every US govt program and calculate usage costs. Very complicated. However, this statement is confusing to me. Do you agree to a bailout, as a society, to eventually get all of it back? And, I also take issue with 100M tax payers. Are these Individual Income Tax payers? If so, what about all the non income tax payers and companiss tha…

For the most part, sales tax is a state and local tax and so doesn't affect federal receipts.

Re: The U.S. Air Force just admitted the F-35 stealth fighter has failed

#835

Post by KingOfCoders »

toomanybeersies wrote: post #753
sebmellen wrote: post #737

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've always wished for (and wanted to develop) a calculator which would take in your taxes paid, and calculate exactly how many dollars and cents of your tax bill went to which programs. I'm sure the results would shock most Americans.

Here in Australia, after my tax return is lodged, I receive an income tax receipt with a breakdown of where my tax dollars went. It's only broken down by category though (e.g. Health, Defence, Education), except for Welfare, which has subcategories (e.g. Aged, Disability, etc). There's an example and further explanation here on the ATO website: https://www.ato.gov.au/Individuals/Lodging-your-tax-return/I... There's a…

What a nice idea, wish we had something like this in Germany - not digging on websites but a tax receipt.

Re: The U.S. Air Force just admitted the F-35 stealth fighter has failed

#836

Post by agsamek »

medium_burrito wrote: post #587
agsamek wrote: post #432

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Read more about petro-dollar scheme. Basically US provides military services to oil producers in exchange for global tax. This is only possible if US is able to retain their military position. So every dollar you think is being subsidized to allied countries is in fact paid back with lots of premium from all countries - both allies and enemies.

You do know the US is now the world's #1 oil producer (and food producer).

Petro-dollar is not about US dependences on oil producers. It is the other way. It is about forcing all countries to using dollars to buy oil. This allows the US to sell dollars and charge for this in various ways. On the other hand it requires the US to keep military control of oil logistics. The advatege for allied oil producers it that they can trade oil more easily. You know - transferring billions of dollars over international sea in the form of oil requires a lot of support from military just to make it happen.

Re: The U.S. Air Force just admitted the F-35 stealth fighter has failed

#837

Post by crazypyro »

CoffeeDregs wrote: post #725

Putting aside the good-plane/bad-plane discussion, this program is the poster child for one of my pet wishes: that the costs of government programs would be expressed in $/tax-payer. There are about 100M tax payers in the US; this program is expected to cost about $1,500,000M; so the F35 program is expected to cost about $15,000 per tax payer. True: that's over 50 years; still, un-discounted, that's $300/year/tax-pay…

I'll pay $300/year for global security any day of the week. Honestly, I don't give a shit if it costs $10,000/year, I want the U.S. being the global police because I am most comfortable with the status quo.

Simple as that.

Re: The U.S. Air Force just admitted the F-35 stealth fighter has failed

#838

Post by paulie_a »

frotak wrote: post #816
CoffeeDregs wrote: post #725

Putting aside the good-plane/bad-plane discussion, this program is the poster child for one of my pet wishes: that the costs of government programs would be expressed in $/tax-payer. There are about 100M tax payers in the US; this program is expected to cost about $1,500,000M; so the F35 program is expected to cost about $15,000 per tax payer. True: that's over 50 years; still, un-discounted, that's $300/year/tax-pay…

> Do you expect to receive $15,000 of value from the F35 program? I'm not sure I won't: perhaps it'll keep oil/energy prices stable and I spent well more than $300/year on energy... But from the article > The Air Force alone wanted nearly 1,800 F-35s to replace aging F-16s and A-10s and constitute the low end of a low-high fighter mix, with 180 twin-engine F-22s making up the high end. > Fifteen years after the F-35’…

An excessively over powered military with a bloated budget can definitely use some crumbling

Re: The U.S. Air Force just admitted the F-35 stealth fighter has failed

#839

Post by esoterica »

CoffeeDregs wrote: post #725

Putting aside the good-plane/bad-plane discussion, this program is the poster child for one of my pet wishes: that the costs of government programs would be expressed in $/tax-payer. There are about 100M tax payers in the US; this program is expected to cost about $1,500,000M; so the F35 program is expected to cost about $15,000 per tax payer. True: that's over 50 years; still, un-discounted, that's $300/year/tax-pay…

> The Covid bailout last year was about $60,000 per tax payer (https://www.covidmoneytracker.org/). How much of your $60,000 did you see?

My stonks went up by way more than $60k (that figure is completely wrong and inflated anyway), so I saw plenty of it.

I'm sorry, were you fishing for a different answer?

Re: The U.S. Air Force just admitted the F-35 stealth fighter has failed

#840

Post by shakezula »

crazypyro wrote: post #837
CoffeeDregs wrote: post #725

Putting aside the good-plane/bad-plane discussion, this program is the poster child for one of my pet wishes: that the costs of government programs would be expressed in $/tax-payer. There are about 100M tax payers in the US; this program is expected to cost about $1,500,000M; so the F35 program is expected to cost about $15,000 per tax payer. True: that's over 50 years; still, un-discounted, that's $300/year/tax-pay…

I'll pay $300/year for global security any day of the week. Honestly, I don't give a shit if it costs $10,000/year, I want the U.S. being the global police because I am most comfortable with the status quo. Simple as that.

As a hardcore leftist, even I have to admit there are benefits of neoliberal policy to a strong internationally present military that at least pretends to uphold human rights and has a bunch of other countries that also pretend the same. It’s better than the alternative.
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