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The U.S. Air Force just admitted the F-35 stealth fighter has failed

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Re: The U.S. Air Force just admitted the F-35 stealth fighter has failed

#631

Post by partiallypro »

jasonwatkinspdx wrote: post #464
misiti3780 wrote: post #86

The saddest thing about all of this IMO is they have been working on this for 14 years, and how much money was spent/wasted? Now, read about Skunkworks - they were able to build the SR71 (without supercomputers) in less than half that time and for a fraction of the cost. This isn't just planes, this seems to be everything nowadays. Fission was discovered in 1938/1939 and we dropped two bombs on Japan in 1945. No chan…

While the US does have a problem with building civil engineering projects today, that dynamic isn't really what happened with the F-35. The root of the F-35 program's problems is a cost plus style contract that gave Lockheed every incentive to overrun on cost and time table. Ash Carter fixed that by telling Lockheed if they didn't agree to his new contract he'd kill the entire thing. And oh hey what a surprise sudden…

It's not just the US, it's the West in general. Even Germany, look at the Berlin airport boondoggle.

Re: The U.S. Air Force just admitted the F-35 stealth fighter has failed

#632

Post by bhupy »

bee_rider wrote: post #542
bhupy wrote: post #381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Maybe flying cars just don’t make sense? I think it's just a placeholder metaphor to represent

But also, the fact that it was impractical is itself a metaphor -- it turns out many of the things they thought would be cool and futuristic were actually impractical when you get to the details.

Sure, but that's besides the point. It's sort of like that meme about "The World If " (example: https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/394/070/7f2...). It features over the top flying cars and infrastructure because it's trying to make a point.

When one says "we could have had flying cars, but instead we got X", that's the underlying concept. Whether or not the flying car is "practical" is kind of besides the point. Either that, or we need to find some other generally agreed upon term to represent an actually practical but futuristic invention that represents human progress (or the lack thereof).

Re: The U.S. Air Force just admitted the F-35 stealth fighter has failed

#633

Post by rootusrootus »

madhadron wrote: post #486
rootusrootus wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have an interesting old book (which is falling apart, sadly) about the F-16 and it's an interesting comparison with the main competitor at the time, the YF-17, which ultimately became the basis on which the F/A-18 was developed. Both very successful designs.

Title and author? Sounds really interesting.

It is this one: https://smile.amazon.com/General-Dynamics-F-16-Aero-26/dp/08...

Re: The U.S. Air Force just admitted the F-35 stealth fighter has failed

#634

Post by marshmallow_12 »

KDJohnBrown wrote: post #330
dsr_ wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The foreign military aid is also a jobs program. It gives money to US manufacturers by giving money to other countries that they have to use to buy US products.

The justification for foreign aid to Israel is always pretty much “but it’s OK because most of it comes back to us via arms sales”. Essentially billions of dollars of American taxpayer wealth transferred to defense contractors laundered through the IDF.

Israel stops Iran from blowing up or conquering the entire Middle East. Also, military intelligence. Also, the military industry is probably more beneficial to the US by being based there rather than being outsourced to China. I think the tax money given to weapons manufactures is paid back in double by tax. Also, you wouldn't want to fight wars with allies in Chinese planes. Hope this answers your concerns.

Re: The U.S. Air Force just admitted the F-35 stealth fighter has failed

#635

Post by golemiprague »

rubicon33 wrote: post #182
misiti3780 wrote: post #86

The saddest thing about all of this IMO is they have been working on this for 14 years, and how much money was spent/wasted? Now, read about Skunkworks - they were able to build the SR71 (without supercomputers) in less than half that time and for a fraction of the cost. This isn't just planes, this seems to be everything nowadays. Fission was discovered in 1938/1939 and we dropped two bombs on Japan in 1945. No chan…

I wonder if anyone has any theories as to why? Assuming it's true that technological innovation peaked in the mid 40s/50s, it begs the question why it has ground to such a halt now. Recognizing that is a big assumption of truth, would anyone here be willing to posit an explanation?

I think it is the feminisation of everything. Men explore, innovate and disregard the rules. Women creates rules and conformism and stagnation. When HR became more important than engineering you find yourself in the state we are in.

We need to admit that feminisation of the workplace was a mistake which didn't benefit anyone in any way. Society invest huge amount of money in educating and employing women but get nothing in return, no new business, no innovation, no productivity. A housewife is much more beneficial to the economy than most jobs done by women.

We need to to encourage women to go back to be housewives so only the 10% that are really useful will actually go to work and do those useful things.

Re: The U.S. Air Force just admitted the F-35 stealth fighter has failed

#636

Post by KDJohnBrown »

marshmallow_12 wrote: post #634
KDJohnBrown wrote: post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The justification for foreign aid to Israel is always pretty much “but it’s OK because most of it comes back to us via arms sales”. Essentially billions of dollars of American taxpayer wealth transferred to defense contractors laundered through the IDF.

Israel stops Iran from blowing up or conquering the entire Middle East. Also, military intelligence. Also, the military industry is probably more beneficial to the US by being based there rather than being outsourced to China. I think the tax money given to weapons manufactures is paid back in double by tax. Also, you wouldn't want to fight wars with allies in Chinese planes. Hope this answers your concerns.

> I think the tax money given to weapons manufactures is paid back in double by tax.

Broken windows fallacy.

Re: The U.S. Air Force just admitted the F-35 stealth fighter has failed

#637

Post by marshmallow_12 »

WalterBright wrote: post #543
nemothekid wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, a while back I was interested "where does billions we spend on national defense actually go" and I came to the conclusion that the DoD is really just a giant jobs program. Ultimately I think the reason we don't have things like flying cars is that the private sector gets stuck in local maxima (such as getting people to click ads) and in the public sector it's very hard to have focused time-blocked short term goa…

We already have flying cars. They're called helicopters. They're very expensive to operate, mainly because of the very high maintenance costs. Those high costs are due to the fundamental problem that helicopters cannot survive losing a blade.

blades are too expensive. We need a powerful new powerplant that can direct a stream of deficient energy in sufficient quantities to enable flight. Powerplant doesn't yet exist, and my energy converter doesn't, either. In the 50's it wasn't imagined that commanding computers would use so many resources, rather human ingenuity would be directed towards revolutionising existing technology. This is yet to materialise. Sad

Re: The U.S. Air Force just admitted the F-35 stealth fighter has failed

#638

Post by buu700 »

digi59404 wrote: post #7

“The F-35 has failed” is a strong statement that depends on what your definition of success is. Did it fail because it couldn’t replace the F-16? Did it fail because it’s expensive and bloated? Do those things even matter? I’m not defending the F-35 but anyone deeply and intimately familiar with the platform knows and understands that it is a Ferrari. You don’t bring your Acura TSX to a Formula 1 race track to win a…

I know nothing about the F-35, but it sounds like it's basically the Servo of aircraft?

As in, it hasn't evolved into a complete product that can wholesale replace its predecessors, but its innovations will be incorporated into them over time.

Re: The U.S. Air Force just admitted the F-35 stealth fighter has failed

#639

Post by the_af »

misiti3780 wrote: post #590
the_af wrote: post #444

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is far from how I learned it I'm also not from the US, and I was similarly surprised when I found their position on this piece of history differs with how it's learned in pretty much the rest of the world. Speak to someone outside the US about the nuking of Hiroshima and Nagasaki: most, if not all, will say it was a terrible thing, almost a war crime. In some (Western!) countries the consensus is that it was a…

It may have been a war crime, not sure about that, it was never officially a war crime, so it is what it is. My understanding is basically the following: Right before the bombs were dropped, the US was in a situation where they were trying to end WW2 and they did not want the Soviets to invade Japan (which they did anyways). Before Trinity, the US was bombing the hell of out of Japan already. ~100K Japanese died in T…

To be clear: I'm not seeking to challenge your view, and the kind of "learning" I'm talking about is not only the formal education system, but also the consensus among people who discuss these things, news articles, etc.

What I find interesting is how the average US person and the average Westerner (I.e. people in the US sphere of influence during the Cold War) differ on this. To the former, it was a necessary act -- terrible but just -- to end the war. To the latter, it's an abhorrent and immoral act committed by the US.

More importantly, the US seems unaware of how the rest of the world remembers the atomic bombings. It seems many in the US readily accept the Vietnam war was immoral (the domino theory becoming less and less accepted as justification), but not as many think of Hiroshima and Nagasaki likewise.

To repeat it once more: I'm not that interested in discussing whether it was moral or justified (I've had my share of this discussion over the years) but more on why the perception of the US and the rest of the world differs so much.

Re: The U.S. Air Force just admitted the F-35 stealth fighter has failed

#640

Post by JKCalhoun »

chmod600 wrote: post #361
notional wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's more than just a jobs program too. It's a reelection plan for senators/house members. Look at what states and districts get these big DoD contracts and then look at what committees the congressmen/women are sitting on. They approve plans that benefit them then direct the funds right into their districts so they can campaign on it. I mean it's not the worst form of corruption but it's pretty shitty when you reali…

That's what "pork" means.

Or "stimulus" if you want to cast positive light on it.
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