The U.S. Air Force just admitted the F-35 stealth fighter has failed • Hacker News Board

Re: The U.S. Air Force just admitted the F-35 stealth fighter has failed

#401

Post by unishark » Wed, Feb 24, 2021, 9:13 PM UTC

captain_price7 wrote: post #315

Thorentis wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> we just cant build cool shit anymore I sadly agree. Unis spend so much time teaching CAD software, processes, etc, you wonder how much understanding engineering grads actually have. I just think we've stagnated as a technological society. We rely so much on computers to do everything, that we can't innovate in the same way anymore. Unless our new x has an onboard super-computer, we just can't get it to do anything.

> Unis spend so much time teaching CAD software, processes, etc, you wonder how much understanding engineering grads actually have That's interesting. The popular sentiment in programming world seem to be Unis don't tech practical stuff enough, or interviews for (junior) developers don't test their practical knowledge enough- a point I always found a bit strange.

I'm in a university dealing with this stuff and we get both ends at the same time, they (companies) want more immediate technical skills (e.g. programming) while also complaining that grads don't know their math fundamentals enough.

In an engineering department (as in not CS) I'd say the bias is overwhelmingly towards the math end of the spectrum, partly because faculty largely don't even keep up with the technology. You'd have to heavily revise your course constantly (imagine teaching how to use google products...). Plus it just feels less worthwhile teaching things that will become obsolete in a few years.

Oh and by the way we need to teach them to write better too. Kids can't communicate these days. And economics. And ethics. It ends up being a very tight squeeze we can cram in maybe two courses on programming if it's a top priority.

Re: The U.S. Air Force just admitted the F-35 stealth fighter has failed

#402

Post by RobLach » Wed, Feb 24, 2021, 9:13 PM UTC

misiti3780 wrote: post #86

The saddest thing about all of this IMO is they have been working on this for 14 years, and how much money was spent/wasted? Now, read about Skunkworks - they were able to build the SR71 (without supercomputers) in less than half that time and for a fraction of the cost. This isn't just planes, this seems to be everything nowadays. Fission was discovered in 1938/1939 and we dropped two bombs on Japan in 1945. No chan…

The F-35 program is spread across hundreds of vendors with representatives grabbing a piece for their constituents. I wouldn't be suprised if different diameter o-rings are coming from different suppliers.

This is a strategic approach that both jacks up the price and gives you plenty of powerful allies who will fight to keep the program afloat.

They could very put such an aircraft together at half the cost and time if cost and time were targets for the people deciding to fund this.

Re: The U.S. Air Force just admitted the F-35 stealth fighter has failed

#403

Post by merpnderp » Wed, Feb 24, 2021, 9:14 PM UTC

zests wrote: post #343

Where's the quote from the Air Force saying the F-35 failed? There is none. As far as I can tell this article is just misrepresenting a quote to push a narrative.

I took his quotes about how the F-35 is now a high end boutique plane instead of the replacement for everything. The Air Force changed the F-35's designation, which the author takes as a tacit admission of failure. How else would you read the Air Force's statement? "That plane that was supposed to replace all our planes will only replace a few of our planes. We need a new plane to replace all the rest."

Re: The U.S. Air Force just admitted the F-35 stealth fighter has failed

#404

Post by twobitshifter » Wed, Feb 24, 2021, 9:15 PM UTC

Are fighter jets a necessity when we have drones? Other commenters bemoan the lack of technological progress in fighter jets, but a drone is capable of maneuvers that humans cannot survive, and the use of drones also limits the loss of pilot lives.

Investing money in drones over fighter jets seems like the cost effective move here. Flying the jet yourself is definitely cooler than doing it by remote control, but I don’t think it will make much sense in warfare in 20 years time. We have to skate to where the puck is going.

Re: The U.S. Air Force just admitted the F-35 stealth fighter has failed

#405

Post by afarrell » Wed, Feb 24, 2021, 9:15 PM UTC

nemothekid wrote: post #268

JohnJamesRambo wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I keep seeing people say this. Maybe flying cars just don’t make sense? Wheels work really well when your engine dies. Have you seen people drive in 2d space? You want to add a z axis? What’s the efficiency of a small plane? Surely not better than a Prius. Edit: I looked it up and a Cessna gets ~15 mpg.

I would look at flying cars are a metaphor, not as a literal thing people are opining over.

Indeed. In a conversation about being insufficiently thoughtful in deciding what you really want to build, flying cars are an excellent metaphor.

Re: The U.S. Air Force just admitted the F-35 stealth fighter has failed

#406

Post by greedo » Wed, Feb 24, 2021, 9:15 PM UTC

leoc wrote: post #284

beckingz wrote: post #99

This is just an attempt to get funding for aircraft that will be bad. Any new aircraft they develop to be cheaper will suffer the same scope and budget creep that the F-35 did. We won't send pilots out in planes that are known to have low survivability, so when the new aircraft is insufficiently stealthy/fast/survivable, more money will be spent to make it even worse than the F-35.

There's at least one proposal to get around this by adopting a foreign design like the Saab Gripen: http://www.stairwaypress.com/bookstore/american-gripen/ . The US could rename it the Freedom Chimera and manufacture it under license in Kentucky to manage the politics.

I have a bridge I'd like to sell you...

The Gripen is a fine aircraft, but introducing a foreign made aircraft into the USAF doesn't happen very often. I can only think of two examples, the Canberra bomber (B-57) and the Dauphin helicopter the Coast Guard bought in the 1980's.

Plus new-build F-16s would be better at most roles than the Gripen.

Re: The U.S. Air Force just admitted the F-35 stealth fighter has failed

#407

Post by tlogan » Wed, Feb 24, 2021, 9:15 PM UTC

misiti3780 wrote: post #86

The saddest thing about all of this IMO is they have been working on this for 14 years, and how much money was spent/wasted? Now, read about Skunkworks - they were able to build the SR71 (without supercomputers) in less than half that time and for a fraction of the cost. This isn't just planes, this seems to be everything nowadays. Fission was discovered in 1938/1939 and we dropped two bombs on Japan in 1945. No chan…

I want just to add that Peter Thiel is one of the reason why we cannot have / invent ‘cool stuff’. But he is also not wrong about what he saying: I’m just saying that it is not so simple.

Re: The U.S. Air Force just admitted the F-35 stealth fighter has failed

#408

Post by umvi » Wed, Feb 24, 2021, 9:16 PM UTC

F-35 is perhaps one of the ultimate "scope creep" stories, though a lot of military vehicles have the same problems (tanks come to mind). Every big wig wants some bell or whistle for their use case baked in.

Re: The U.S. Air Force just admitted the F-35 stealth fighter has failed

#409

Post by president » Wed, Feb 24, 2021, 9:17 PM UTC

notional wrote: post #316

medium_burrito wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You misunderstand the purpose the F35- it is a jobs and pork program first and foremost, like SLS. It has the side benefit of keeping people trained to build this sort of thing, so SpaceX can hire them. We can build cool shit, but our government and most companies don't optimize for that.

It's more than just a jobs program too. It's a reelection plan for senators/house members. Look at what states and districts get these big DoD contracts and then look at what committees the congressmen/women are sitting on. They approve plans that benefit them then direct the funds right into their districts so they can campaign on it. I mean it's not the worst form of corruption but it's pretty shitty when you reali…

The interesting thing is that it seems to be an unfixable and systemic problem. You could have someone come in and try to clean it up but then they'd face the backlash of the entire system that has been built on and benefited from the corruption.

Re: The U.S. Air Force just admitted the F-35 stealth fighter has failed

#410

Post by missedthecue » Wed, Feb 24, 2021, 9:17 PM UTC

lakecresva wrote: post #167

missedthecue wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The total costs to keep all F-35s in the air until 2070 (likely after you and I are dead and in the ground), would not even cover 6 months of Medicare for all or UBI. Not sure how you can draw such an equivalence.

How are you calculating the cost of medicare for all?

I just took Bernie Sander's estimate, which looks like it comes from Yale. His website says $4.7 Trillion per year. But you can really take any estimate out there, and it wouldn't change my point.

https://berniesanders.com/issues/how-does-bernie-pay-his-maj...