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The U.S. Air Force just admitted the F-35 stealth fighter has failed

forbes.com

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Re: The U.S. Air Force just admitted the F-35 stealth fighter has failed

#131

Post by jazzyjackson »

spoonjim wrote: post #111
misiti3780 wrote: post #86

The saddest thing about all of this IMO is they have been working on this for 14 years, and how much money was spent/wasted? Now, read about Skunkworks - they were able to build the SR71 (without supercomputers) in less than half that time and for a fraction of the cost. This isn't just planes, this seems to be everything nowadays. Fission was discovered in 1938/1939 and we dropped two bombs on Japan in 1945. No chan…

Not dropping radioactive bombs = toxic.

The point was how quickly it went from theory to implementation.

Re: The U.S. Air Force just admitted the F-35 stealth fighter has failed

#132

Post by TaylorAlexander »

misiti3780 wrote: post #86

The saddest thing about all of this IMO is they have been working on this for 14 years, and how much money was spent/wasted? Now, read about Skunkworks - they were able to build the SR71 (without supercomputers) in less than half that time and for a fraction of the cost. This isn't just planes, this seems to be everything nowadays. Fission was discovered in 1938/1939 and we dropped two bombs on Japan in 1945. No chan…

That is a very strange sentiment about the bombs.

Re: The U.S. Air Force just admitted the F-35 stealth fighter has failed

#133

Post by zdragnar »

medium_burrito wrote: post #100
misiti3780 wrote: post #86

The saddest thing about all of this IMO is they have been working on this for 14 years, and how much money was spent/wasted? Now, read about Skunkworks - they were able to build the SR71 (without supercomputers) in less than half that time and for a fraction of the cost. This isn't just planes, this seems to be everything nowadays. Fission was discovered in 1938/1939 and we dropped two bombs on Japan in 1945. No chan…

You misunderstand the purpose the F35- it is a jobs and pork program first and foremost, like SLS. It has the side benefit of keeping people trained to build this sort of thing, so SpaceX can hire them. We can build cool shit, but our government and most companies don't optimize for that.

More than that, thr SR-71 was purpose-built. That means fewer hands on thr steering wheel, and fewer compromises to achieve multiple missions.

The F-35, by comparison, was a platform vehicle, with the base suited to adapting to a variety of capabilities and missions. That means more voices demanding priority of features, more expensive engineering to get a variety of polygon pegs into the same round hole, and many first-of-its-kind features for a variety of ancillary tasks.

No real surprise that it didn't work out.

Re: The U.S. Air Force just admitted the F-35 stealth fighter has failed

#134

Post by 542458 »

tele wrote: post #107
cwhiz wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could take the entire defense budget, and the defense budget from every other country in the world, and you would be less than 50% of the funding you would need for a single year of Medicare for all. The US spends about $3.6 trillion per year on health care. I have no idea what UBI might cost, but I know we don’t have the tax revenues to get even close. Maybe the money printer can go brrrr a little bit faster.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6... "Taking into account both the costs of coverage expansion and the savings that would be achieved through the Medicare for All Act, we calculate that a single-payer, universal health-care system is likely to lead to a 13% savings in national health-care expenditure, equivalent to more than US$450 billion annually (based on the value of the US$ in 2017). T…

That really doesn't have any bearing on the point that the costs of the F-35 and M4A are dramatically different. Funding or not funding the F-35 isn't the determining factor in funding M4A.

Re: The U.S. Air Force just admitted the F-35 stealth fighter has failed

#135

Post by kevin_thibedeau »

kcb wrote: post #52
danjac wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But I can't really see much benefit to that Look at the recent Nagorno-Karabakh conflict to see how much UAVs are a game-changer: https://www.csis.org/analysis/air-and-missile-war-nagorno-ka...

But how do you translate that into hitting something going Mach 1 at 40k feet? A UAV capable of attacking a jet can exist. My point is that it would need to be a fully capable aircraft not something that can be produced cheaply and deployed in swarms. There's a lot of space in the sky.

They can be produced cheaply because all of the life support, human facing controls, and armoring aren't included. This reduces weight which shrinks the airframe and reduces operational costs significantly.

Re: The U.S. Air Force just admitted the F-35 stealth fighter has failed

#136

Post by stefan_ »

medium_burrito wrote: post #100
misiti3780 wrote: post #86

The saddest thing about all of this IMO is they have been working on this for 14 years, and how much money was spent/wasted? Now, read about Skunkworks - they were able to build the SR71 (without supercomputers) in less than half that time and for a fraction of the cost. This isn't just planes, this seems to be everything nowadays. Fission was discovered in 1938/1939 and we dropped two bombs on Japan in 1945. No chan…

You misunderstand the purpose the F35- it is a jobs and pork program first and foremost, like SLS. It has the side benefit of keeping people trained to build this sort of thing, so SpaceX can hire them. We can build cool shit, but our government and most companies don't optimize for that.

And you still get the military benefits from that. Like the value of Starlink for military operations is huge.

Re: The U.S. Air Force just admitted the F-35 stealth fighter has failed

#137

Post by samstave »

cwhiz wrote: post #89
rayhendricks wrote: post #72

It did not fail at providing money to the military-industrial-congressional complex. But of course we need more fighter jets instead of Medicare for all and UBI. China is not going to send fighters over to Bomb the us mainland, this thing is totally unnecessary.

You could take the entire defense budget, and the defense budget from every other country in the world, and you would be less than 50% of the funding you would need for a single year of Medicare for all. The US spends about $3.6 trillion per year on health care. I have no idea what UBI might cost, but I know we don’t have the tax revenues to get even close. Maybe the money printer can go brrrr a little bit faster.

Just because we SPEND money doesnt mean that the price is VALID.

"Medicine" is grossly overpriced.

our entire model is FUCKED.

Source: designed and built and commissioned several hospitals and an entire family of doctors. Fuck the US health care system and fuck the military-industrial-spyware-congressional-graft system. I was the tech designer for SF General (before Zuck stuck his name on it) (I designed the entire nurse call system there, among many other things)

My brother was the head of the VA for Alaska, commander of the 10th medical wing USAF, personal flight surgeon to the Joint Chiefs of Staff at the pentagon.

Grandmother was a surgical nurse for decades in Silicon Valley.

Top cardiologist in California (and mayor of Saratoga)

Aunt is top NICU nurse at El Camino Hospital (which I was TPM on building...

Among other many accolades that my family has; we all agree - Healthcare is GROSSLY overpriced and BS.

FFS I had to go to the hospital recently and they charged me $4,000 for the ride to the hospital and $12,000 for giving me vitamins and holding me over night.

FUCK the medical industry pricing.

Re: The U.S. Air Force just admitted the F-35 stealth fighter has failed

#138

Post by Judgmentality »

IggleSniggle wrote: post #108
Judgmentality wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Your definition of success changes as time goes on as you get further into a project that's groundbreaking. If you fail to meet your original goal because you are not capable of doing it , and then you change your goal to accommodate this reality, it doesn't change the fact that you failed in your original goal. If my goal is to go to Mars and I only make it to the moon because it turns our Mars is just too far awa…

I disagree that this is justification of failure. If anything, it’s the opposite. We failed in our goal. We also learned and developed things of real value while pursuing that goal. This is salvaging what can be salvaged to make headway in an adjacent goal. That said... > Your definition of success changes as time goes on as you get further into a project that's groundbreaking. Sometimes the goal is, itself, a failur…

> We failed in our goal.

Simply by admitting this, you've already contradicted the person I was responding to.

His entire scribe is "what is failure? have we really failed? no" instead of "yeah we failed, but we can learn from it"

Failure is fine. Failure is expected. Failure is the best way to learn an iterate.

But then don't say "well we always got what we wanted out of it anyway, which was to learn" when your goal was "to build the ultimate fighter jet at this budget in this timeline"

Re: The U.S. Air Force just admitted the F-35 stealth fighter has failed

#139

Post by chickenpotpie »

misiti3780 wrote: post #86

The saddest thing about all of this IMO is they have been working on this for 14 years, and how much money was spent/wasted? Now, read about Skunkworks - they were able to build the SR71 (without supercomputers) in less than half that time and for a fraction of the cost. This isn't just planes, this seems to be everything nowadays. Fission was discovered in 1938/1939 and we dropped two bombs on Japan in 1945. No chan…

Covid-19 has a vaccine less than a year into the first death in The US, that’s pretty nuts

Re: The U.S. Air Force just admitted the F-35 stealth fighter has failed

#140

Post by heymijo »

misiti3780 wrote: post #86

The saddest thing about all of this IMO is they have been working on this for 14 years, and how much money was spent/wasted? Now, read about Skunkworks - they were able to build the SR71 (without supercomputers) in less than half that time and for a fraction of the cost. This isn't just planes, this seems to be everything nowadays. Fission was discovered in 1938/1939 and we dropped two bombs on Japan in 1945. No chan…

Next Generation Air Dominance (NGAD) [0]. You might have missed this news.

It’s a modern remix to the Kelly Johnson and Ben Rich days of developing legendary aircraft at Lockheed’s Skunkworks that you lamented the loss of.

People in the know confirm it’s legit and shocking, in a good way. Especially compared to the failures of the F-35 and even the F-22’s development.

[0] https://www.airforcemag.com/article/ropers-ngad-bombshell/

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