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The U.S. Air Force just admitted the F-35 stealth fighter has failed

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Re: The U.S. Air Force just admitted the F-35 stealth fighter has failed

#61
Given the type of both recent and predicted conflicts that the US has been involved with, it's not 100% clear to me that the US needs yet another aircraft. That is, fighting in proxy wars or fighting in countries like Iraq, Afghanistan, or Syria don't need anything new. And fighting a sophisticated enemy would probably ramp up to nuclear deterrents and diplomacy anyway...fighters wouldn't make a notable difference in that kind of war.

Won't happen, but it seems like they should just buy fighters from allies where the F-35 isn't a good fit.

Re: The U.S. Air Force just admitted the F-35 stealth fighter has failed

#62
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't comment from the perspective of the F16 specifically, but from experience working on upgrade efforts of military and IC ground processing systems, the challenge is the legacy systems are very tightly coupled to the hardware. They make strong assumptions about register size and number, bus bandwidth, filesystem block size, all kinds of things that software developers rarely think about any more, but things tha…

Worked around F16's and F22's when I was in and can attest that this is the source of the issue for upgrades. Everything in the software is so tightly coupled to the hardware that updating the F16's would be a monumental effort. The difference between a 4th and 5th generation air frame are night and day in terms of software capabilities. Hell, even the different between 5th generation jets can be massive on the softw…

does this make them inherently safer from a 'hack'?

Re: The U.S. Air Force just admitted the F-35 stealth fighter has failed

#63
I guess along the way, the activity of designing and building the plane became more important than the outcome / functionality of the plane itself.

You see it all the time in projects. People look busy and seem like they're building things, so some progress must be happening. Or is it?

Blink an eye, and in a couple years you unwittingly accumulated a platform that served to fulfill every random team's desire to load on requirements, systems, electronics, sensors ("go find out what people want!"), with very few people making the countervailing decision to trade off / cut things for an overall desired outcome ("what do they actually demonstrate -- not say -- they need?").

Well, they didn't have to pay for it, so there was no harm in giving their requirements. And if the actual willing payor (Congress) had little incentive (or technical chops) to be ruthless about costs or actual useful output, well then there's few checks on that happening. Until some top level general says, "why aren't these hugely expensive planes being used like we thought they would be?" Too late.

I guess it kept people employed in the meantime. How can you cut 10% of the workforce in Huntsville when the representative sits on the Armed Services committee? (I don't know that, but just for example...) Which, sometimes, is a national goal in itself for strategic purposes.

It might be good though, to have a more deliberate plan about these kinds of things, if that's the goal.

Re: The U.S. Air Force just admitted the F-35 stealth fighter has failed

#64
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Not the success criteria some folks have perpetuated or thrust upon the project. This isn't an art project where interpretation is in the eye of the beholder. This is a taxpayer-funded set of contracts; the success criteria are defined as part of said contracts, they're not "thrust upon" the project by "some folks". Your trickle down benefits would come from any innovative project, whether it were a success or a fa…

In industry when you realize a project is going to fail it is common to pack it with a bunch of marginally related things that you want in your project but cannot afford. Then when they complete what you want you take it for no cost. It makes your project look better on the bottom line (ROI or whatever metric accountants use to judge), and the other project eventually is written off. Would the company be better off j…

Is the project a fail for Lockheed Martin?

Didn't they get paid a bunch of money for it?

Don't they get paid again each time there's a rev?

Re: The U.S. Air Force just admitted the F-35 stealth fighter has failed

#66
post #22
post #12

The time of planes has ended and the time of drones has begun it has.

You still have to shoot down a fighter jet to disable it. An enemy can't hack the pilot remotely and safely land it on their own air strips, which has happened with drones.

I think if you make a fighter jet expend its missiles putting it in Winchester mode, and block its path to safety, thus expending its fuel... it drops from the sky. IMHO that would be a disable/defeat.

Re: The U.S. Air Force just admitted the F-35 stealth fighter has failed

#67
post #61

Given the type of both recent and predicted conflicts that the US has been involved with, it's not 100% clear to me that the US needs yet another aircraft. That is, fighting in proxy wars or fighting in countries like Iraq, Afghanistan, or Syria don't need anything new. And fighting a sophisticated enemy would probably ramp up to nuclear deterrents and diplomacy anyway...fighters wouldn't make a notable difference in…

You're not thinking about the other wars we want to fight after the wars we are currently fighting now.

Re: The U.S. Air Force just admitted the F-35 stealth fighter has failed

#68
post #39

“The F-35 has failed” is a strong statement that depends on what your definition of success is. Did it fail because it couldn’t replace the F-16? Did it fail because it’s expensive and bloated? Do those things even matter? I’m not defending the F-35 but anyone deeply and intimately familiar with the platform knows and understands that it is a Ferrari. You don’t bring your Acura TSX to a Formula 1 race track to win a…

[upvote for reference to Ferrari tractors :-)]

Lamborghini started out making tractors.

Re: The U.S. Air Force just admitted the F-35 stealth fighter has failed

#69

Interestingly enough Wikipedia says that the request for proposals for the F16 happened in January 1972 and the first completed fighter was accepted in January 1979. That’s 7 years, without the use of computers.

similar to the AR-15 platform -- it was proto'd, built, and adopted FAST. But in the decades following ... the US has floundered while troops use a 70 year old rifle (albeit with scopes and rails)

Re: The U.S. Air Force just admitted the F-35 stealth fighter has failed

#70
post #67
post #61

Given the type of both recent and predicted conflicts that the US has been involved with, it's not 100% clear to me that the US needs yet another aircraft. That is, fighting in proxy wars or fighting in countries like Iraq, Afghanistan, or Syria don't need anything new. And fighting a sophisticated enemy would probably ramp up to nuclear deterrents and diplomacy anyway...fighters wouldn't make a notable difference in…

You're not thinking about the other wars we want to fight after the wars we are currently fighting now.

Sorry...what countries?
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