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Coca-Cola says 'Be Less White' learning plan was about workplace inclusion

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Re: Coca-Cola says 'Be Less White' learning plan was about workplace inclusion

#141

Post by loudtieblahblah »

Coca cola was invented/founded by a Confederate Lieutenant Colonel

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Stith_Pemberton

They supported Nazi Germany against US embargo rules, inventing Fanta to keep business in the Nazi economy

https://timeline.com/fanta-coca-cola-nazi-845ee7e513af…

Theyve had Columbian union organizers murdered by right wing militias

https://prospect.org/api/amp/features/coca-cola-killings/?__...

They've built an empire off of oppression.

And now they want to shame middle and working class white people for OUR sins of birth?

Lol

Re: Coca-Cola says 'Be Less White' learning plan was about workplace inclusion

#142

Post by dragonwriter »

curryst wrote: post #139
viklove wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well a lot of people seem to think the definition of racism has changed to mean "power + prejudice," instead of just judging someone based on their race, so theoretically "neoracism" would just mean what "racism" meant ~20 years ago.

"power + prejudice" is referred to as "structural racism". It's a sociology term. It was never intended to replace the common definition of racism, it was meant to be a framework for thinking about the different types and effects of racism. Structural racism doesn't preclude other types of racism, and structural racism can be a cause for acts of racism. I think the focus is on structural racism now because the more b…

> "power + prejudice" is referred to as "structural racism"

I'm not sure where you got that idea, but structural racism doesn't actually require prejudice at all (it often involves it's, but includes institutional features which preserve disadvantage through neglect as well as active discrimination.)

> It was never intended to replace the common definition of racism

Yes, “power + prejudice” was, when coined in 1970, specifically designed to replace the common understanding of “racism” and explain why relatively disadvantaged groups (who those endorsing the definition tend to describe actually powerless rather than merely relatively disadvantaged) cannot be racists in the context of the society in which they are disadvantaged, no matter how prejudiced they were.

Re: Coca-Cola says 'Be Less White' learning plan was about workplace inclusion

#143

Post by loudtieblahblah »

Coca cola was invented/founded by a Confederate Lieutenant Colonel

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Stith_Pemberton

They supported Nazi Germany against US embargo rules, inventing Fanta to keep business in the Nazi economy

https://timeline.com/fanta-coca-cola-nazi-845ee7e513af…

Theyve had Columbian union organizers murdered by right wing militias

https://prospect.org/api/amp/features/coca-cola-killings/?__...

They've built an empire off of oppression.

And now they want to shame middle and working class white people for OUR sins of birth?

D'Angelo gets paid 10s of 1000s to white wash corporate criminals as social justice heroes.

Re: Coca-Cola says 'Be Less White' learning plan was about workplace inclusion

#144

Post by nailer »

dragonwriter wrote: post #136
kardianos wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So is she disagreeing with this?

> So is she disagreeing with this? They (it's not a sole-author paper) are very clearly not endorsing it as a literal description , while also quite explicitly endorsing the detailed and nuanced description of the effects of inculcating White identity which Thandeka uses to explain that rather inflammatory summary description, and also, implicitly through scare-quoted back-reference, adopting the summary as a metapho…

It's not "detailed and nuanced" to claim that raising white children to be white is wrong, nor is it to redefine whiteness as a kind of ignorance and and evil knowing this will be taken to mean white people (as commonly defined) are ignorant and evil.

Re: Coca-Cola says 'Be Less White' learning plan was about workplace inclusion

#145

Post by lazyeye »

_y5hn wrote: post #128
lazyeye wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Im also genuinely surprised to read the comments here. I typically expect US silicon valley types to be woke to the point of mental retardation.

Prejudice has never been insightful.

Agreed. But that same observation applies just as much to woke prejudices as to anything else.

Re: Coca-Cola says 'Be Less White' learning plan was about workplace inclusion

#146

Post by nailer »

newmnhn wrote: post #56
treeman79 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Insulting and demeaning racial groups is the opposite of inclusion. It breeds resentment and hatred. For a time there was a focus on treating people as human and not as [racial/sex/religion] Trend these days is to encourage openly being a bigot, just as long as it’s against certain people. Replace the word white with any other social group and perhaps you’ll see the problem.

"White" isn't a racial group. "White" as an idea to describe a group of (roughly) light skinned European people, came about in order to justify enslaving and subjugating other groups. Various groups worked their way into being considered white over time, in part by contributing to the subjugation of others. And various groups once considered white, later were not considered so. "White" as what you call a "social grou…

> So yeah, I'm all for being less white. I'm fine with just being like ... Irish.

As someone who remembers being told, as a child, their father was stupid because 'Irish people are stupid', DiAngelo's work makes me feel exactly the same way.

If you're interested in doing some more research of your own I can recommend: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cynical_Theories

Re: Coca-Cola says 'Be Less White' learning plan was about workplace inclusion

#147

Post by itsdrewmiller »

dudul wrote: post #133

Are there been any study around the effectiveness of these "trainings"? How many people get out of a training where a slide tells them to be "less white, ie more tolerant, less oppressive, etc" feeling more tolerant? And how many get out angry and more alienated than before?

I doubt there's anything on this particular type of training, but https://hbr.org/2016/07/why-diversity-programs-fail and the paper it summarizes are still the best summary I've seen about what does and doesn't have a positive impact on diversity in the workplace. It says diversity trainings in general do not seem to be useful.

Re: Coca-Cola says 'Be Less White' learning plan was about workplace inclusion

#148

Post by Anthony-G »

teh_klev wrote: post #131
dragonwriter wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> where she states: > raising White children to be White is a form of child abuse But she doesn't state that; she states that someone else characterized an effect that DiAngelo is discussing in those terms. You just clipped that sentence to obscure that: “Acknowledging this, Thandeka (1999) argues that raising White children to be White is a form of child abuse because...”

I think the context needs to be expanded some more: In exploring the emo-cognitive performance of White neurosis we draw from the interdisciplinary approach to critical Whiteness studies. For example theologian, Thandeka (1999) argues that Whites have cultivated a deep shame about anything racial because since birth they have been reared to claim they do not see race when in fact they do. Acknowledging this, Thandeka…

Upvoted for providing actual context but the quoted text reads like academic obscurantism to me. I may not be the target audience for such papers but phrases like “own resonant feelings” are meaningless. I took the time to look up what “emo-cognitive” is supposed to mean but all I found was papers similar to Beyond the Face of Race: Emo-Cognitive Explorations of White Neurosis and Racial Cray-Cray by the same author. There was plenty of impenetrable language but no clear explanation of what “emo-cognitive” means.

I also had to look up “white neurosis” to find out what it’s supposed to be (the previous articles assume it as an axiom). Amusingly, the top result on DuckDuckGo was an even nuttier website on the opposite side of the US spectrum¹ which quoted some academic as describing it as a new disorder that afflicts white people (presumably Americans) causing them to react “defensively, aggressively, or defectively” when they’re reprimanded for their privilege. I guess neuroses cover such a wide variety of mental states that you could make the case that an inability to relate with others of different skin colour is a type of neurosis but from the way the term is used, it sounds like it’s more loaded than that.

I stopped reading there because life’s too short and I started to become depressed considering that it’s likely only a matter of time before this sort of thinking crosses over to my side of the pond (as we refer to the Atlantic). The Covid-19 and other right-wing conspiracy theories have already caused enough societal damage. :(

1. https://needtoknow.news/2017/09/university-iowa-prof-identif... (the “Covid-19 is fake links on its side-bar were too much for me)

Re: Coca-Cola says 'Be Less White' learning plan was about workplace inclusion

#149

Post by Anthony-G »

omginternets wrote: post #107
chewmieser wrote: post #46

This is from LinkedIn's learning portal, which is used by numerous companies (like Coca-Cola). The training claims to be created by Dr. Robin DiAngelo (author of books such as White Fragility). Dr. DiAngelo has a statement on her website claiming that she had nothing to do with this content and it was created without her consent: Dr. DiAngelo was not the creator or facilitator of the LinkedIn Learning course “Confron…

>The training claims to be created by Dr. Robin DiAngelo (author of books such as White Fragility). Dr. DiAngelo has a statement on her website claiming that she had nothing to do with this content and it was created without her consent Typical moat-and-bailey argumentation from the woke. These people are just dripping with bad faith, as if this Coca Cola presentation isn't in ideological lock-step with DiAngelo. The…

For what it’s worth, that’s not an example of the motte-and-bailey fallacy. It’s a simple denial and does sound plausible – though I agree that the sentiments expressed by both DiAngelo and the training seem similar.

Re: Coca-Cola says 'Be Less White' learning plan was about workplace inclusion

#150

Post by seneca »

germinalphrase wrote: post #103
seneca wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're correct, but I think you're missing that this is done intentionally. I've heard it referred to as "humpty-dumpying", referring to the character is Through the Looking-Glass: > "When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean—neither more nor less." "The question is," said Alice, "whether you can make words mean so many different things." "The question…

Perhaps, but I think that extends too much (nefarious) intentionality to it. This kind of discourse has decades of academic background, but has only been culturally prominent in recent years. I am more inclined to believe that most folks are just repeated poorly understood half knowledge than engaging in subtle logical gamesmanship like Motte/Bailey. The whole public conversation is at the “Expert Youtuber” phase of…

> The whole public conversation is at the “Expert Youtuber” phase of subtly and sophistication.

Ha, well said.

> This kind of discourse has decades of academic background, but has only been culturally prominent in recent years. I am more inclined to believe that most folks are just repeated poorly understood half knowledge than engaging in subtle logical gamesmanship like Motte/Bailey.

I don't disagree. Most of what we see is people regurgitating arguments they only tenuously grasp. I do believe the people initially generating those arguments are doing exactly as I described though. In fact, the first time I read about this concept it was from Nicholas Shackel (first described Motte and Bailey) showing Foucault using the tactic.

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