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The unusual ways Western parents raise children

bbc.com

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Re: The unusual ways Western parents raise children

#291

Post by leto_ii »

meowster wrote: post #82
alistairSH wrote: post #29

Of all the "weird" things we do as parents in euro/anglo nations, sleeping arrangements seems nowhere near the top. IMO, the top "offender" is over-scheduling kid's activities. So many kids in my area have their days booked solid with sports, academic tutoring, music lessons. Approaching zero free time to enjoy being a kid. Edit - and this isn't really a western thing, "Tiger Mom" and similar probably pre-dates this…

I volunteer with a U.S. Scout troop. I see boys that don't know whether or not they can go on an activity/campout because they have to ask their parents if they're free that day/weekend. I try to tell them their old enough (most are teenagers) that they should start deciding for themselves what activities they participate in. Most all of them just seem apathetic. I'm sure their parents are trying to do what is best f…

I don't think attitudes to infant care translate in any way to how older kids or teenagers are treated in different cultures. I'm not a parent, but I was a child and teenager at some point, so I can say from personal experience that parents who are extremely present at a young age can actually give you more leeway later in life.

On a more general note, I can recommend Jared Diamond's 'The World Until Yesterday' - it covers similar topics to the bbc article and more.

Re: The unusual ways Western parents raise children

#292

Post by anw »

jimbob45 wrote: post #282
agumonkey wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We are in an orthodoctic era. Lots of tensions about what principle is the best to follow, less patience and acceptance.

Would you please define that word? I can't find a definition online and I try to look up unfamiliar words to widen my vocabulary.

I'm not the OP, but my attempt through breaking down word etymologies would be something like:

ortho: rigid, straight, correct

doct: teachings, learnings

ic: of, or pertaining to

So orthodoctic seems to have the meaning of "pertaining to rigid or correct teachings".

Re: The unusual ways Western parents raise children

#293

Post by ragnese »

asdfasgasdgasdg wrote: post #207
ragnese wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm in the U.S. I personally know a non-trivial number of women who have gone through absolutely intense (real, diagnosed) anxiety and depression because of having to feed formula to their child instead of breast milk. If you ever get to peek into these "mommy groups" on social media or in person, you can see how much shaming goes on in there. And the breast milk one is one of the biggest issues people get shamed for…

> If you are not a scientist who has actually conducted one of these studies; if you are not intimately familiar with the methodologies and the math techniques used in the analysis; if you've only ever read the headline and maybe an abstract of a study- then please don't give advice to anyone on the topic. Please don't spread "information" that X is better than Y. I'd say this advice doesn't really go far enough. I'm…

I agree with everything you said. Especially with acknowledging that breastfeeding, in particular, has costs associated with it. Something that isn't discussed much is that formula/bottle feeding gives the opportunity for dad to bond with the baby over feeding as well as allowing to divide the sleep deprivation more equitably between both parents.

Re: The unusual ways Western parents raise children

#294

Post by leto_ii »

kkwteh wrote: post #47

From the perspective of the Lindy principle it is weird. I have an eighteen-month old child and have been reading a lot about child rearing since my wife got pregnant. It’s taboo to say this, and I’m sorry if this offends anyone, but I suspect that a lack of adult attention in the first three years of life is a principal factor in the rising autism rates we’re seeing in modern economies. This would explain why autism…

> This would explain why autism seems to “cluster” in upper class homes, where the parents work nonstop.

This is an unexpected observation for me. Do you have any references you can point to? I would be interested in knowing more about this.

Re: The unusual ways Western parents raise children

#295

Post by sgtnoodle »

A4ET8a8uTh0 wrote: post #132
PebblesRox wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree and I really dislike the undercurrent of fear that's present in a lot of parenting advice. The message (implicitly or explicitly) tends to be "do it this way or you'll damage your kids." But the truth is we're never going to be perfect parents, we have no guarantees over how our kids turn out, and there are a wide range of approaches that will lead to good outcomes. I like to do research to discover options I…

There is damage and there is damage. Some can really change kids trajectory. Some become a funny anecdote for the future. I am a newly minted parent and we had a visitation from a parent, who now has a 4 year old. She already introduced him to Starbucks and McDonalds. Now I have to ensure that she stays way way down on the list of people we would consider babysitting. There may not be wrong way to parent exactly and…

I'm curious to know where your line will have moved to once your baby is a toddler and you've been sleep deprived for an extended period of time. Please follow up in two years!

Recently, a bunch of coworkers with young children ended up together in a social video call, and most of the conversation was about how blurry that line becomes over time. One guy with elementary school aged daughters was calling from his back porch, in the cold and dark, with the lights off, just to have some peace.

Re: The unusual ways Western parents raise children

#296

Post by anw »

agumonkey wrote: post #290
jimbob45 wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you please define that word? I can't find a definition online and I try to look up unfamiliar words to widen my vocabulary.

Hm I improvised an adjective for orthodoxy. Maybe it's orthodoxic .. I hope you get the meaning now.

The adjective form of orthodoxy is orthodox. Think of something like the "Orthodox" church. And it's antonym is "unorthodox", for example: "the unorthodox church" ;)

Re: The unusual ways Western parents raise children

#297

Post by dom96 »

mucholove wrote: post #261
gdubs wrote: post #171

One of the hardest thing about being a parent today is the constant shame and confusion about the “right” way to do it. We don’t live in a hunter gatherer society anymore, we just don’t. There’s lots of wisdom in that way of life, and sure we could learn from it — but there’s enough anxiety as it is, parents don’t need more of it. We have three kids and we sleep trained them. (Not a pediatrician, standard disclaimer.…

What method of sleep training did you use? This article lists 6! https://www.todaysparent.com/baby/baby-sleep/most-popular-sl...

I've been wondering the same, the BBC article explains:

> the most extreme version of which involves leaving a baby on their own to "cry it out", in an effort to encourage their babies to sleep for longer stretches so their parents can get some much-needed rest.

I'm not a parent but that sounds pretty sensible to me. Odd of the BBC to call it "extreme".

Re: The unusual ways Western parents raise children

#298

Post by bluGill »

ajmadesc wrote: post #162
standardUser wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"So many kids in my area have their days booked solid" Sounds like a wealthy thing, not a Western thing.

Queue the Doctor / Lawyer married couple with 2.5 kids who vacation twice a year, lease German cars, and have positive net worth crying about 'only being middle class'.

Odds are good the couple you mention are in fact negative net worth, or close to it. They don't own the car. Every time their house goes up in value they refinance and take the cash out to pay for the vacation.

Generally those with a significant net worth live more modest lives - older cars (they might buy new, but that is because they know if they do the maintenance it will last for 15-20 years). The house might be nice for the neighborhood, but it won't be in the rich part of town. They might vacation twice a year, but they will be cheap vacations. The difference goes into funding their retirement plan, and some other savings.

Re: The unusual ways Western parents raise children

#299

Post by mercurysmessage »

rajin444 wrote: post #194
Dumblydorr wrote: post #136

The only thing I feel certain of is that hitting children or abusing them is a sad unnecessary practice. Adults need the wisdom and sense to handle problems with logic and words. Physical violence is simply bullying and using superior size and strength, which is irrelevant in the modern world and which predisposes your children to violent behaviors.

What makes you feel certain of this? I may be wrong, but a majority of human history seems to point to (roughly) "spanking is ok, anything more is not". Children do not understand logic the same as adults.

Just because something was done historically doesn't make it right or correct.

Re: The unusual ways Western parents raise children

#300

Post by kar5pt »

alistairSH wrote: post #29

Of all the "weird" things we do as parents in euro/anglo nations, sleeping arrangements seems nowhere near the top. IMO, the top "offender" is over-scheduling kid's activities. So many kids in my area have their days booked solid with sports, academic tutoring, music lessons. Approaching zero free time to enjoy being a kid. Edit - and this isn't really a western thing, "Tiger Mom" and similar probably pre-dates this…

I'd argue that romanticizing children's free time is more weird and more western than anything else. My free time as a kid usually just involved being bored and lonely while watching TV or playing video games.
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