GameStop, Bitcoin and the Commoditization of Populist Rage • Hacker News Board

Re: GameStop, Bitcoin and the Commoditization of Populist Rage

#141

Post by enraged_camel » Wed, Feb 24, 2021, 5:01 PM UTC

Flozzin wrote: post #131

pcstl wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not irrelevant if you want to use an expression such as "nasty, brutish and short", coined by Hobbes to refer to the condition of man living by himself, without a social structure to support him. It implies that people in the first world - specifically, the US - are living in conditions somehow comparable in their uncertainty to people living in a pre-civilized state. If anyone is minimally realistic about the…

I'm getting the impression that since the author overstates his case, by using a quote by Hobbes, his entire point is invalid. Therefor, millennials must accept their fate. And the fact that their lives will be worse than previous generations doesn't matter. Because the Hobbes quote is misused, and because other people have way worse lives. I disagree. So what if he misused the quote. His overall point is valid. And…

Pretty much. Just because the quote may have been somewhat misused — or used out of context — doesn't invalidate his main point.

Re: GameStop, Bitcoin and the Commoditization of Populist Rage

#142

Post by smattiso » Wed, Feb 24, 2021, 5:07 PM UTC

me_me_me wrote: post #95

hintymad wrote: post #28

> Let’s state the uncomfortable truth. The future for many Americans is bleak and their lives are going to be nasty, brutish and short. Everyday I see a world where many in my generation have simply given up all hope for opportunity of a family, a house, a stable career and forced to confront an uncertain future in a world that is slowly boiling itself to death. But why? Why can't more kids get into STEM fields? Why…

> Why can't more kids get into STEM fields? Because not everyone is predisposed to be a programmer, engineer or statistician. Not everyone can become a whitecollar worker. This is reality of the world we live in, no amount of though experiments will change that. What you are really doing is blaming victims of a system set against those people. Our society should be built so those people can have decent lives too. Ie…

Have you seen our housing stock, our housing supply, our infrastructure? There are plenty of jobs needing to be done. A virtually unlimited amount of progress is possible.

The problem inherently lies with the assumption that the free market will fix all and assuming that some entrepreneurial person is going to lead the charge and redevelop our country. What a joke.

The boom after the Great Depression that made the US into a superpower was driven entirely by government dollars.

My solution would be: * Raise minimum wage to $30 an hour. * Implement land value tax + higher capital gains taxes in order to stem inflation. * Hire 10x the amount of construction workers, civil engineers, etc and provide them with the funding for projects.

Get to work. It's laughable that someone working at Snapchat can make 1M a year while the jobs that literally build our country are paying dogshit.

We need wealth redistribution but not via UBI, via actual development. Let's raze the slums and rebuild with shiny skyscrapers. It's possible. We just have to get away from capitalists getting increasingly rich while the rest suffer.

Also as an aside, my bet is that "programming" reverts to the mean within 10 years as a career. 20 years ago programmers were paid peanuts. Most of the heavy lifting of building software has already been done, AI, low-code, etc. is going to make it increasingly easier. Be ready.

All of this is GOOD, why does it cost 5 million dollars to build a site so that I can reserve a place in line at the DMV (made up example). The tech industry has enjoyed a monopoly on transmitting data. Building an app or a website should be as easy as opening an excel spreadsheet or a word doc. That is coming and your UI coding skills are going to be essentially useless very soon.

Re: GameStop, Bitcoin and the Commoditization of Populist Rage

#143

Post by pcstl » Wed, Feb 24, 2021, 5:08 PM UTC

Flozzin wrote: post #131

pcstl wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not irrelevant if you want to use an expression such as "nasty, brutish and short", coined by Hobbes to refer to the condition of man living by himself, without a social structure to support him. It implies that people in the first world - specifically, the US - are living in conditions somehow comparable in their uncertainty to people living in a pre-civilized state. If anyone is minimally realistic about the…

I'm getting the impression that since the author overstates his case, by using a quote by Hobbes, his entire point is invalid. Therefor, millennials must accept their fate. And the fact that their lives will be worse than previous generations doesn't matter. Because the Hobbes quote is misused, and because other people have way worse lives. I disagree. So what if he misused the quote. His overall point is valid. And…

My point isn't that people should "accept their fate", just that they should be more realistic about how bad things really are. If you start treating minor setbacks as gigantic issues, you start having overreactions that might just make things even worse.

Re: GameStop, Bitcoin and the Commoditization of Populist Rage

#144

Post by epinephrinios » Wed, Feb 24, 2021, 5:10 PM UTC

throwawaywoke wrote: post #130

h0nd wrote: post #124

>The last ten years have seen a massive redistribution of wealth from this age bracket into older demographics. This has very strongly increased during that year of pandemic. In my country a vast amount of money is spent on protecting old people that future generations will be liable for.

Essentially, shutting down the economy (well, the poor person sectors only) was also a move to protect old people at the expense of young people. The COVID IFR rate increases sharply with age. If you don't see what's happening, then quite bluntly, you need to broaden your circles to familiarize yourself with people that aren't privileged enough to be able to continue working remotely.

The fruits of gerontocracy.

Re: GameStop, Bitcoin and the Commoditization of Populist Rage

#145

Post by pcstl » Wed, Feb 24, 2021, 5:10 PM UTC

Zababa wrote: post #137

pcstl wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fair enough. But my point is to be disruptive. I don't think the author has a point here. I think he's appealing to the fact that, on an emotional level, humans think they're entitled to always have their standards of living be equal or better to what they were before to make people think they live in uniquely hard times. Looking to the world outside of the US might provide some badly-needed perspective as to why tha…

> Looking to the world outside of the US might provide some badly-needed perspective as to why that is not true. My understanding was that this is the opposite. In the US, the standard of living is pretty high, but not improving. In most of the world, standards are lower but improving. I think your point is that people should focus on what they have compared to the rest of humanity and the world, rather than compared…

My point is that even if US millenials' standards of living are decreasing, they still have it better than most of humanity. This is not to say that US people aren't allowed to try to claim a better future, just that keeping problems in scale helps ward off overreaction that might just worsen the issue.

Re: GameStop, Bitcoin and the Commoditization of Populist Rage

#146

Post by smattiso » Wed, Feb 24, 2021, 5:13 PM UTC

Animats wrote: post #26

Clewza313 wrote: post #14

> Everyday I see a world where many in my generation have simply given up all hope for opportunity of a family, a house, a stable career and forced to confront an uncertain future in a world that is slowly boiling itself to death. South Korea and Japan are 10-20 years ahead of the same curve here. However, the result has been resignation and stagnation, not revolution. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sampo_generation h…

What countries have successfully resisted the movement of money to the rich over the last 20 years?

I'm sure they will face the piper at some point, but you don't see people in Copenhagen living on the streets or in squalor. Probably because China makes all of their stuff and immigrants build all of their houses, but still.

Re: GameStop, Bitcoin and the Commoditization of Populist Rage

#147

Post by solosoyokaze » Wed, Feb 24, 2021, 5:14 PM UTC

vinceguidry wrote: post #123

solosoyokaze wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd add the rules around being an accredited investor. The US government cuts off early stage investment opportunities to non-high net worth individuals "for their own good". The same US government that happily allows for state run lotteries.

This is mostly due to the dangers it poses to old people, who are by and large defenseless against scammers. If you don't put barriers in place to prevent old people from making the choice to throw their nest egg away, bilking old people becomes an industry .

There are plenty of old people buying lottery tickets.

All of these justifications are just an excuse to erect artificial barriers around the early stage market (aka where all the upside is). People should be free to spend their money as they see fit, even if that means shoveling it into a campfire.

Re: GameStop, Bitcoin and the Commoditization of Populist Rage

#148

Post by solosoyokaze » Wed, Feb 24, 2021, 5:15 PM UTC

mdale wrote: post #129

solosoyokaze wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd add the rules around being an accredited investor. The US government cuts off early stage investment opportunities to non-high net worth individuals "for their own good". The same US government that happily allows for state run lotteries.

At least with the lottery there are odds published and audited... ICOs maybe not so much. That said nothing preventing kick starter for seed rounds with a cut for said audits of at least good faith intent to build business value in some way.

Odds are something that you want with gambling, you can't calculate odds on company success.

> That said nothing preventing kick starter for seed rounds with a cut for said audits of at least good faith intent to build business value in some way.

To the best of my knowledge accredited investor laws are preventing this.

Re: GameStop, Bitcoin and the Commoditization of Populist Rage

#149

Post by dontbeevil1992 » Wed, Feb 24, 2021, 5:36 PM UTC

pcstl wrote: post #127

jancsika wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let me tell you, we used to dream of living in the non-US/Western European world! What I did there-- and what you are doing-- is referred to as "one-downmanship." Essentially, attempting to ignore or downplay suffering by talking about a case of worse suffering that you have experience with. When not part of comedy sketches[1], it's usually considered disruptive. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ue7wM0QC5LE

Fair enough. But my point is to be disruptive. I don't think the author has a point here. I think he's appealing to the fact that, on an emotional level, humans think they're entitled to always have their standards of living be equal or better to what they were before to make people think they live in uniquely hard times. Looking to the world outside of the US might provide some badly-needed perspective as to why tha…

People should stop complaining that they don't have healthcare because they have iPhones and vaccines and don't literally live in the mud? Maybe that would hold water if there were literally no other option, and if the distribution of wealth and misery were an unchangeable force of nature. But the reality is, people don't have healthcare BECAUSE some people don't want to pay more taxes, and want poor people to stay in a desperate bargaining position so they can be exploited. Some people have less BECAUSE other people have more, and for no good reason besides the fact that our society supports the haves in exploiting the have-nots. It is a choice that our society works this way, and there is another way for things to work, and we must make that choice to change.

Re: GameStop, Bitcoin and the Commoditization of Populist Rage

#150

Post by Zababa » Wed, Feb 24, 2021, 5:42 PM UTC

pcstl wrote: post #145

Zababa wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Looking to the world outside of the US might provide some badly-needed perspective as to why that is not true. My understanding was that this is the opposite. In the US, the standard of living is pretty high, but not improving. In most of the world, standards are lower but improving. I think your point is that people should focus on what they have compared to the rest of humanity and the world, rather than compared…

My point is that even if US millenials' standards of living are decreasing, they still have it better than most of humanity. This is not to say that US people aren't allowed to try to claim a better future, just that keeping problems in scale helps ward off overreaction that might just worsen the issue.

Fair enough, thanks for the clarification.