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LinkedIn is building a gig marketplace

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Re: LinkedIn is building a gig marketplace

#291
post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, when you first start out, it's not like you always have that many choices. I started working with clients on Upwork because I couldn't get any full time programming jobs at a company, but I could get contracts on Upwork. And the way they've set it up is if you use the Dekstop app you get paid even if there is a dispute, but if you don't, you might not get paid. So again, it's not like I wanted it this way, but…

This is interesting. I usually advise beginners NOT to start freelancing before they get some experience with a full time job at a company (preferably a non-remote/on-site position). If the market starts to push people into the other direction, that will, I think, further decrease the chances of any client getting their project finished. And I definitely don't mean this as a critique towards you. (If I want to be hon…

> I usually advise beginners NOT to start freelancing

I switched from product manager to developer through a masters, and started freelancing because while I received interest for FT positions from very good companies in my country, they only offered me junior positions (and naturally I cannot blame them), in a country with low wages. I ended up clearing over 2x the salary of a junior in my first year freelancing (so more or less the salary of a decent senior), working with two very large non-tech companies and one pre-seed startup.

However, I agree with your comment.

For starters, my situation is fairly exceptional; I have proven sales and product/project management skills. I'd feel comfortable walking into a room with C-level executives, pitching to them, and then delivering on those promises (while navigating fairly well the inevitable small failings such as missed deadlines, etc.)

But above all I wouldn't recommend this route to anyone who has even a remote possibility of getting an FT job because learning everything on your own is a gruesome process. It's possible, but it takes huge amounts of discipline and deliberate practice: you need to force yourself to read more code and books to discover patterns and acquire skills which would otherwise come naturally by just being present 9-to-5. Also bear in mind there's no outside pressure to write that unit test or refactor that smelly code - it's all on you. And of course you have no one to talk to - you have to endure a permanent and extreme loneliness in your doubts, only mitigated by making dev friends in real life and posting regularly on SO (and don't count too much on the latter!).

It's had positive things for me too. It allowed me to work all across the stack, from product management, design, front-end to back-end, and I am starting to position myself (locally, at least) as a product engineer that gets shit done, and to a high standard of quality. I also get to choose my own stack and technologies at all times (which also builds particular skills in research, etc.), and no corporate politics or whatever get in the way of you suddenly shifting your focus to a different discipline, which is what I hated most when I had a career.

Nevertheless, I'd say if I didn't factor the 2x wage (which is probably not realistic for a lot of starting devs), the cons would clearly outweigh the pros, and I would repeat your advice to most people.

Re: LinkedIn is building a gig marketplace

#292

https://support.upwork.com/hc/en-us/articles/211064098-Log-T... > It’s easy to bill your time using the Upwork desktop app. ... > When you have logging turned on, the app takes random screen captures six times per hour—once per 10-minute billing segment. Anything visible on your screen will display in your Work Diary, but you have the option, in Settings, to choose whether the screen captures your entire desktop or o…

I signed up for Upwork, a couple of years ago. I knew a few people that had used the platform to hire freelancers, and they raved about it. I never got even one legit lead. Not one. I did, however, get quite a few scammers. One was quite scary. It was a local person, with a crazy project proposal, that kept trying to get me to meet them in person, in remote locations. I nuked my Upwork account, months ago. Even thoug…

In case anyone's forgotten, there was also that story where Upwork cut off a freelancer with no explanation, and falsely told the client they had to upgrade, on the pretense that Upwork had to comply with the California law about contractor status.

(Which is indeed an issue with CA's contractor laws, but in no way requires them to ghost you or you to use their payroll service.)

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18415367

Re: LinkedIn is building a gig marketplace

#293

https://support.upwork.com/hc/en-us/articles/211064098-Log-T... > It’s easy to bill your time using the Upwork desktop app. ... > When you have logging turned on, the app takes random screen captures six times per hour—once per 10-minute billing segment. Anything visible on your screen will display in your Work Diary, but you have the option, in Settings, to choose whether the screen captures your entire desktop or o…

Since I learned what upwork was the hard way, I not only stay away from it but also reject any other consultant who says that this is usually the platform they source their projects from. At first sight the problem seems to be poor quality engineers/skills. The true issue is that its race-to-the-bottom pricing strategy (one that gets hand-wavily justified by intrusive surveillance / screen recording) attracts the wor…

> At first sight the problem seems to be poor quality engineers/skills.

It is. The good ones get better jobs elsewhere. Those who can't start competing in the race for the bottom.

> I expect any external contractor to think critically of requirements they are given and raise flags if something is off.

That's what a professional engineer would do. Costs way more than 25$/hour.

Re: LinkedIn is building a gig marketplace

#294
post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the UK this type of work would get caught by IR35, which I understand would be similar to AB5. As an employee you can also pick your own tools or figure out how to do the work by yourself - these are not determining factors at least here where I live. What tips it over the IR35 is having to log your hours and work to the specification given by the "client". This is no different than normal employment except you an…

"As an employee you can also pick your own tools or figure out how to do the work by yourself" That hasn't really been my experience doing software development as an employee. They mandate lots of things like methodology (scrum, scaled agile, etc), tools like their standard IDE, coding standards, style guides, mandatory use of JIRA or similar, SCM standards, which languages are allowed, and so on. I'm aware some plac…

If I was commissioning a project I would require it to be implemented using this and that technology and adhere to industry standards and so on. There is not much flexibility, and what IDE you are using are immaterial when it comes to whether you are employed or not.

Re: LinkedIn is building a gig marketplace

#295
post #77
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On a global marketplace? $100/hour is a ridiculously good rate for a large % of workers. Maybe not in SF or Tech Hubs but for a graphics designer in India, or Eastern Europe?

High-end, by definition, is not a large percentage of workers. High end is the workers on the high end of the compensation scale. Those type of people arent going to be on a site like upwork, but they make a hell of a lot more than $100/hr.

They are the high end in the global market.

Only in very rich countries $100/hr could be considered "normal" or not high-end.

Re: LinkedIn is building a gig marketplace

#296
post #77
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On a global marketplace? $100/hour is a ridiculously good rate for a large % of workers. Maybe not in SF or Tech Hubs but for a graphics designer in India, or Eastern Europe?

High-end, by definition, is not a large percentage of workers. High end is the workers on the high end of the compensation scale. Those type of people arent going to be on a site like upwork, but they make a hell of a lot more than $100/hr.

You are conflating price and quality. If there are two top level people equally good one will undercut the other. And if one lives in Bangalore and the other in SF the first will undercut massively. SF living expenses are an exception on a global market place.

Re: LinkedIn is building a gig marketplace

#297
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> $100/hour, so it’s definitely not just for low-end stuff. Maybe not low-end, but that's still probably the lower end of mid-end.

Come again, $100/hour is the "lower end of mid-end"? The median wage is around $25 in the USA, the minimum wage averages around $10...

That’s an apple to oranges comparison. You should be comparing it to the median freelance hourly rate for each respective industry.

Re: LinkedIn is building a gig marketplace

#298
post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"As an employee you can also pick your own tools or figure out how to do the work by yourself" That hasn't really been my experience doing software development as an employee. They mandate lots of things like methodology (scrum, scaled agile, etc), tools like their standard IDE, coding standards, style guides, mandatory use of JIRA or similar, SCM standards, which languages are allowed, and so on. I'm aware some plac…

If I was commissioning a project I would require it to be implemented using this and that technology and adhere to industry standards and so on. There is not much flexibility, and what IDE you are using are immaterial when it comes to whether you are employed or not.

"what IDE you are using are immaterial when it comes to whether you are employed or not."

It's not, though. It's one aspect of behavioral control. For US Federal purposes, for example:

"Type of instructions given, such as when and where to work, what tools to use"

"Degree of instruction, more detailed instructions may indicate that the worker is an employee"

"Training a worker on how to do the job"

https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/understanding-employee-vs-contr...

An IDE could come up in all three of those. And the law isn't black-and-white...it's the cumulative pile of these things that drives a ruling. So an IDE is absolutely material as one of many mandated tools, processes, or training subjects.

Re: LinkedIn is building a gig marketplace

#299

https://support.upwork.com/hc/en-us/articles/211064098-Log-T... > It’s easy to bill your time using the Upwork desktop app. ... > When you have logging turned on, the app takes random screen captures six times per hour—once per 10-minute billing segment. Anything visible on your screen will display in your Work Diary, but you have the option, in Settings, to choose whether the screen captures your entire desktop or o…

As far as I know, monitoring like this is illegal everywhere in Europe

It's legal, regulated and sometimes required if you are accessing production servers, with software like securelink. It's just considered as part of the audit trail.

Re: LinkedIn is building a gig marketplace

#300
post #245

In the future your boss will assign work by auctioning JIRA tickets off to the team with a price ceiling set by freelancers on the LinkedIn marketplace. Payment will be through a bounty system. Salary is such an outdated payment structure

I've been thinking about this, only using Etherium contracts.
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