Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Toshiba Unveils First FC-MAMR HDD: 18 TB, Helium Filled

anandtech.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

11–20 of 86 posts

Re: Toshiba Unveils First FC-MAMR HDD: 18 TB, Helium Filled

#11

Post by r00fus »

abfan1127 wrote: post #4
yummypaint wrote: post #3

This seems like a terrible use of helium from a sustainability perspective. There are some things that helium is truly essential for, like low temperature cryogenics and neutron detection. Our supply is finite and largely tied to natural gas reserves. When helium leaks out it floats into space and is gone forever. Why does the atmosphere in the drive absolutely have to be helium? Why not any other mix of inert gases…

my first thought was what happens when it leaks out?

Sounds like planned obsolescence.

Re: Toshiba Unveils First FC-MAMR HDD: 18 TB, Helium Filled

#13

Post by mschuster91 »

tyingq wrote: post #10
burke wrote: post #2

I remember hearing somewhere that helium will slowly leak through whatever vessel you try to contain it with. I wonder if that (is true, and if so whether it) imposes some kind of maximum life on these drives. Or maybe this is only hydrogen that is this problematic.

No expert, but it seems to make sense that helium is particularly hard to contain based on molecular diameter: Hydrogen 2.75 Angstroms Helium 2.18 Argon 3.67 Oxygen 3.64 Nitrogen 3.64 “Air” 3.74

Fascinating - I had expected helium to be a larger molecule than hydrogen.

Re: Toshiba Unveils First FC-MAMR HDD: 18 TB, Helium Filled

#14

Post by gruez »

tyingq wrote: post #6
yummypaint wrote: post #3

This seems like a terrible use of helium from a sustainability perspective. There are some things that helium is truly essential for, like low temperature cryogenics and neutron detection. Our supply is finite and largely tied to natural gas reserves. When helium leaks out it floats into space and is gone forever. Why does the atmosphere in the drive absolutely have to be helium? Why not any other mix of inert gases…

Backblaze did a blog post about helium drives in 2018: https://www.backblaze.com/blog/helium-filled-hard-drive-fail... Some interesting stuff in there, like the SMART data element for helium status. And this quote, after they had 3 years in with helium drives: "To date only one HGST drive has reported a value of less than 100, with multiple readings between 94 and 99." But, then, later, this quote: "My prediction is…

>Would be cool if a Backblaze employee could chime in with what they've seen since.

can't you check their follow-up reports they've posted? I believe that they break out AFR numbers by drive model so it shouldn't be too hard to separate out the helium drives from the normal drives.

Re: Toshiba Unveils First FC-MAMR HDD: 18 TB, Helium Filled

#15

Post by blacksmith_tb »

tyingq wrote: post #10
burke wrote: post #2

I remember hearing somewhere that helium will slowly leak through whatever vessel you try to contain it with. I wonder if that (is true, and if so whether it) imposes some kind of maximum life on these drives. Or maybe this is only hydrogen that is this problematic.

No expert, but it seems to make sense that helium is particularly hard to contain based on molecular diameter: Hydrogen 2.75 Angstroms Helium 2.18 Argon 3.67 Oxygen 3.64 Nitrogen 3.64 “Air” 3.74

Yet it takes it weeks or months to leak out (I suppose it'd be more accurate to say 'slip between' the other molecules) of an extremely thin mylar balloon. I am sure it's an engineering challenge to keep it inside a small metal box, but it seems possible, at least. After all, the reserves we have have just been stuck in the ground, without managing to leak into the atmosphere.

Re: Toshiba Unveils First FC-MAMR HDD: 18 TB, Helium Filled

#16

Post by tyingq »

mschuster91 wrote: post #13
tyingq wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No expert, but it seems to make sense that helium is particularly hard to contain based on molecular diameter: Hydrogen 2.75 Angstroms Helium 2.18 Argon 3.67 Oxygen 3.64 Nitrogen 3.64 “Air” 3.74

Fascinating - I had expected helium to be a larger molecule than hydrogen.

There's a detailed explanation here: https://chemistry.stackexchange.com/questions/115363/is-a-hy...

Edit: Oops. Still relevant since it's H2 in play here, but yes, not hyrdrogen vs helium.

Re: Toshiba Unveils First FC-MAMR HDD: 18 TB, Helium Filled

#18

Post by Denvercoder9 »

mschuster91 wrote: post #13
tyingq wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No expert, but it seems to make sense that helium is particularly hard to contain based on molecular diameter: Hydrogen 2.75 Angstroms Helium 2.18 Argon 3.67 Oxygen 3.64 Nitrogen 3.64 “Air” 3.74

Fascinating - I had expected helium to be a larger molecule than hydrogen.

The given value for hydrogen is for hydrogen gas (i.e. H₂), while helium is just a single atom.

Re: Toshiba Unveils First FC-MAMR HDD: 18 TB, Helium Filled

#19

Post by rarefied_tomato »

yummypaint wrote: post #3

This seems like a terrible use of helium from a sustainability perspective. There are some things that helium is truly essential for, like low temperature cryogenics and neutron detection. Our supply is finite and largely tied to natural gas reserves. When helium leaks out it floats into space and is gone forever. Why does the atmosphere in the drive absolutely have to be helium? Why not any other mix of inert gases…

Counterpoint: new large markets & high tech applications for helium will drive up the price. At this point consumers might scale back the balloons.

Re: Toshiba Unveils First FC-MAMR HDD: 18 TB, Helium Filled

#20

Post by dragontamer »

hart_russell wrote: post #12

Can someone explain why this FC-MAMR tech is significant?

MAMR isn't necessarily significant per se. It's the energy assist in general (be it heat or microwaves).

By heating up a small dot on the disk, that small section will change it's bits easier. As such, we can shove more bits into the same area.

Energy-assist hard drives is the next step, leading to more and more bits in a smaller area.

Post reply on HN