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LinkedIn is building a gig marketplace

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Re: LinkedIn is building a gig marketplace

#211

Post by matz1 »

jeltz wrote: post #179
3np wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I think it's stupid and would never dream of going in that direction with my staff (the most talented would probably bolt fast), in principle I see nothing wrong with it as long as: 1) The employer has paid for all necessary hardware 2) If anything goes through third-party services, I can work on the tracked environment in a way that doesn't expose my personal information in any way (e.g. I shouldn't be require…

I don't feel any of that solves my main issue: that I would not want to work for someone who does not trust me. That does not seem like a good environment where I can be productive and work on things which benefit my employer. The privacy issues is not the only issue. The only case I would accept something like this is if I was working at eg the NSA, a really high value target for state actors. Then I would get why n…

The use of monitoring doesn't mean they don't trust you.

Its a way to verify your trust, otherwise it just blind trust.

Re: LinkedIn is building a gig marketplace

#212

Post by Hard_Space »

tmikaeld wrote: post #35
seanwilson wrote: post #31

https://support.upwork.com/hc/en-us/articles/211064098-Log-T... > It’s easy to bill your time using the Upwork desktop app. ... > When you have logging turned on, the app takes random screen captures six times per hour—once per 10-minute billing segment. Anything visible on your screen will display in your Work Diary, but you have the option, in Settings, to choose whether the screen captures your entire desktop or o…

Used to be optional, so the client could require this or not. Yeah, if you take a job on Upwork, you'll never be able to do work with that freelancer off-site ever. It seems they actually enforce this too, I've read of many that's been either banned on suspicion.

Not so. My biggest long-term client started with me on Upwork. We did three projects and then moved away to dealing directly. Upwork may have tightened its T&Cs since then, so that a kind of 'Eye of Sauron' clause applies, though I'm not sure it would stand a legal wrangle.

Re: LinkedIn is building a gig marketplace

#213

Post by sdoering »

hellbannedguy wrote: post #132
seanwilson wrote: post #31

https://support.upwork.com/hc/en-us/articles/211064098-Log-T... > It’s easy to bill your time using the Upwork desktop app. ... > When you have logging turned on, the app takes random screen captures six times per hour—once per 10-minute billing segment. Anything visible on your screen will display in your Work Diary, but you have the option, in Settings, to choose whether the screen captures your entire desktop or o…

We need to put a stop to all electronic surveillance. Cheap tech/software is making it appear everywhere. It’s just going to get more pervasive in the future. I already feel like the wealthy are watching us everywhere. I would like to see most electronic monitoring made illegal. I think we need to set up laws over employer monitoring, even having cameras at work for any reason, even for loss prevention. If they decid…

You say a lot of "I would like" and "We must" - without providing any evidence of what this would entail - positively or negatively.

I lack the factual basis here to judge the wishes/demands put forward?

What would be the consequence of banning all such measures? Are there any studies, comparisons, etc. here?

> We seemed to have a better society back then for the most part?

Now here the question is, how do you define that? At least in Germany, the statistics say that society has become less criminal and much safer. So what is a "better society" in your definition?

Re: LinkedIn is building a gig marketplace

#214

Post by indymike »

EugeneOZ wrote: post #106
input_sh wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Precisely why I only negotiated fixed price projects.

And as a freelancer, I will never take fixed-price contracts. Find someone else for this hell.

I made a ton of money from fixed price contracts. Estimated at $100/HR average real hourly was $150/HR. You can't be constantly up against unknowns and you have to have a predictable cadence. If you stay focussed and can reuse deliverables it really helps. I did digital marketing so lots of landing pages and integration with crm and email marketing.

Re: LinkedIn is building a gig marketplace

#216

Post by Gustomaximus »

tartoran wrote: post #46
Gustomaximus wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I use a client like this for new freelancers/employees that are working full time or larger jobs. It is intrusive but 100% is needed for some people or they take the piss. I'm too busy to follow their workload and sit there estimating times of jobs match hours. I check it one a week for ~10min to see hours logged per day and quick random to check its not loads of time wasting. It feels intrusive but there is little d…

How about assessing their work and thats that. Did they finish the tasks on time? Great, no need to snoop on them. Are they bad at the job then maybe try another person. I personally work in spurts and when im active I run through the work very fast then I need lighter tasks to put the work in the back of my head. Im still working on it even if looks like in not. It isn’t anybody’s business how I use my time as long…

> How about assessing their work and that's that

It doesn't work well in our enviroment. The guys we use this for tend to do a real mixed bag of tasks from a day of small fixes to days on a job. Its not realistic time wise for me to go through their days jobs lists and see all that's done in a day and if it seems right volume wise.

> Are they bad at the job then maybe try another person.

That's what this does. In 10min a week I can see if someone is putting hours and turning over work in a reasonable way.

> It isn’t anybody’s business how I use my time as long as the work gets done.

Absolutely - peeps are free to turn this on and off. I'm looking at the total work, how they break up the day is irrelevant. In that way they are very flexible. Its not like this runs when they are not working.

> This reminds me I had a boss who was nosy and micromanaging. I followed his orders and became a lot less productive. It’s like this, you want control?

I think your putting a bunch of your experience in here that isn't fair. Our enviroment is very hands off and from my end I try to follow what a mentor told me "Tell people what you want, not what to do". You may have another experience but I find this tool helps us achieve independent work while offering that coverage from people that are looking to do less than reasonable.

Re: LinkedIn is building a gig marketplace

#217

Post by ChrisMarshallNY »

loceng wrote: post #174
ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a freelancer. All the rave reviews were from clients. After the fact, I asked around for friends that had tried it as freelancers, and they all had similar stories to mine. It seems that Upwork is really a platform for offshore work. Some of these folks are undoubtedly good, but it's probably a crapshoot, which, to be fair, is also the case for local talent. With cheap offshore work, you can try out a couple of ou…

You need to learn to game the system like the most popular freelancers and agencies seem to learn to do; you're not getting kicked off the platform as a freelancer/agency even if you engage in blackmail/extortion for 5 star ratings - even when there's proof - as I have experienced. It's like you need to start to create some fake accounts, or friends to signup, give you projects - worth a lot or not, or hidden, but wi…

> Personally I'd be too honest to trick people like that, but people who are open to dishonest or bad actions on the platform seem to do well.

Yeah...not for me. Personal Honor and Integrity are a big deal for me.

It's funny. I'm open and extremely honest. Scammers see that as "gullible," but I've been swimming with some of the world's nastiest sharks for 40 years. It's actually kind of difficult to scam me.

I've just learned that I don't need to use nukes to enforce my boundaries. Even scammers react well to simple respect, and it's quite possible to discourage them without being a prick.

I've also learned that it's not a good idea to antagonize crooks. They can often be a bit vindictive.

Re: LinkedIn is building a gig marketplace

#218

Post by Frost1x »

antupis wrote: post #37
praptak wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being a commodity sucks. If you are an expert you have better options than putting yourself for sale as commodity.

yeah it is business model problem because those mystical 10x programmers are not commodities and Fiverr and Upwork are tuned for commodity business like logo design etc.

If you've ever tried logo design, I'd argue it's not really a commodity either. I've attempted it multiple times and it's non-trivial to create a good quality logo for a business. A lot of experience and creativity come to play in those tiny little ubiquitous graphics, not just the technical execution skill (anyone here can probably slop together a vector graphic logo in a pinch).

None the less, graphic designers lost this corner of the market and were out leveraged and forced to work in an environment that wants to treat good logo design as a commodity. Personally, I see the logo contract work example as a cautionary tale of how to not let businesses push software into the same world. Any profession driven by a lot of underlying passion (software development falls here) is vulnerable to such exploitation leveraging the passion aspect. The gaming industry is a great example of this. Highly complex, highly technical, yet there are many slaving hours away in burnout conditions at rates below what their skills could obtain but their passion holds them in place.

Fortunately I think most developers worth their salt are intelligent enough to recognize this sort of exploitation and simply shift away from these situations and realize the costs they've paid not to undermine other developers in the process. I'm not sure if that will maintain forever though. There will always be demand for talented and experienced developers but the market may be able to do 80% of what they can achieve at a fraction of the cost and simply push the remaining 20% cost as a lack of quality onto the consumer--it wouldn't be the first time.

Re: LinkedIn is building a gig marketplace

#219

Post by joshgachnang »

f6v wrote: post #172
Softcadbury wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you say more about what these scammers want? Do they want you to work for them for free?

Some want a freelancer account that is registered in US or Western Europe. I guess it’s easier to get a high-paying client if you have a local face behind your proposal.

I get hit with these constantly because I'm a US based Toptal freelancer. "Hey, if you take the meetings and let us use your account, we'll do all the work and give you 20%!".

Re: LinkedIn is building a gig marketplace

#220

Post by Gustomaximus »

seanwilson wrote: post #41
Gustomaximus wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I use a client like this for new freelancers/employees that are working full time or larger jobs. It is intrusive but 100% is needed for some people or they take the piss. I'm too busy to follow their workload and sit there estimating times of jobs match hours. I check it one a week for ~10min to see hours logged per day and quick random to check its not loads of time wasting. It feels intrusive but there is little d…

There isn't a way you could track results instead of the time they're sitting in front of the computer? That way you don't waste time micromanaging and the freelancer is rewarded for working smarter rather than longer. With time tracking, the freelancer earns less if they find shortcuts and you'd probably rather the work was finished sooner rather than later so the incentives are all mixed up.

Not really. We do a really wide range of jobs and its too time consuming to dive into the detail of peoples work.

Many people are taking this like its some micromanagement its my job to watch them but its literally the opposite. I can quickly check in for 5/10min every week or so and see that things are working. The alternative would be hours of reviewing tasks and output. And this quick check saves me a bucket of time + I leave them alone to do their thing if all seems good.

I do get why people dont like it. I was quite hesitant to bring it in originally but I've found it a really useful tool for the way and employee structure of how our business works.

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