Live data from Hacker News

LinkedIn is building a gig marketplace

aimgroup.com

141–150 of 341 posts

Re: LinkedIn is building a gig marketplace

#141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For most of my contract work I use virtual desktops that are entirely controlled by my clients. I presume that they’re typically able to monitor everything I do in any way they choose. I’ve never had a problem with this, and I don’t see any practical difference between that system and this one. If a client ever started trying to excessively micromanage me I think I’d just not take another contract with them. I can’t…

> and I don’t see any practical difference between that system and this one Right, cause they're both intrusive. You're essentially saying: it's an intrusive system but I don't mind it being intrusive. You also show that you have the possibility to deny working with a party; great. But the point is protecting people who don't like such privacy invasion and who, at the same time, do not have the luxury to deny a contr…

Contractors have an entirely different set of things they can reasonably expect from a client, opposed to what employees can expect from employers. It’s a different kind of relationship all together. You’re not an employee, and your relationship with your clients is exclusively about delivering a service for payment. A contractor will typically benefit from building a network of clients who highly trust their work, but relationships with new clients don’t start out that way, and you can’t expect a client to invest any effort into your relationship beyond what’s required to deliver the contracted work.

While systems like this can be used intrusively, they’re certainly not a violation of privacy on any level. The work you do for your clients isn’t a private matter. It’s theirs. They’re paying you to do it for them...

Re: LinkedIn is building a gig marketplace

#142

https://support.upwork.com/hc/en-us/articles/211064098-Log-T... > It’s easy to bill your time using the Upwork desktop app. ... > When you have logging turned on, the app takes random screen captures six times per hour—once per 10-minute billing segment. Anything visible on your screen will display in your Work Diary, but you have the option, in Settings, to choose whether the screen captures your entire desktop or o…

What's next, brainwave scanners that only pay you for hours that has atleast 20% gamma wavelength.

Well, if you believe this article: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7634705/Chinese-sch...

Re: LinkedIn is building a gig marketplace

#143

https://support.upwork.com/hc/en-us/articles/211064098-Log-T... > It’s easy to bill your time using the Upwork desktop app. ... > When you have logging turned on, the app takes random screen captures six times per hour—once per 10-minute billing segment. Anything visible on your screen will display in your Work Diary, but you have the option, in Settings, to choose whether the screen captures your entire desktop or o…

I signed up for Upwork, a couple of years ago. I knew a few people that had used the platform to hire freelancers, and they raved about it.

I never got even one legit lead. Not one.

I did, however, get quite a few scammers. One was quite scary. It was a local person, with a crazy project proposal, that kept trying to get me to meet them in person, in remote locations.

I nuked my Upwork account, months ago. Even though I hadn’t been on it for months, I would still get occasional scammer contacts. Most were pretty transparent. They didn’t make much effort to hide what they were about. Basically 419 approach.

Cofounders has been similar, but scammers try to get me to contact them outside of the system, and Cofounders has been quite responsive to my reports. I have kept my Cofounders account, as I have received legit contacts (none of which have panned out, but that’s the nature of the beast).

I did try TopTal, a couple of years ago, but that didn’t work out. I won’t get into it, but I don’t think we’re a particularly good “fit.”

Just a few days ago, I had to report a scammer on LinkedIn that had declared themselves to be one of my employees. It took LI three days to do anything, and they never acknowledged my increasingly frantic reports.

Like so many of these types of outfits, they provide no way to establish a way to actually contact people. You just have these one-way, opaque “Report” buttons, with no acks.

Scammers are very clever. I expect them to game this quite quickly.

It’s bad times. I pine for the “good ol’ days,” when there was some Honor to be found, but there’s no putting the candy back in that piñata.

Re: LinkedIn is building a gig marketplace

#144
post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And as a freelancer, I will never take fixed-price contracts. Find someone else for this hell. Can you explain why you think this? Courses/books on freelancing I've looked at generally strongly advise getting away from hourly, so it's interesting how both extremes of this advice exist. My hypothesis is a lot of freelancers get burned on their first projects because there's a learning curving in controlling scope cr…

Recommend getting away from hourly, or recommend going for fixed-price only?

The general recommendation to earn more and not be micromanaged is to go fixed or value priced. Hourly puts a hard cap on your maximum earnings because there's only so many hours in the day and you'll earn less for finishing faster (e.g when reusing code or expertise from previous projects).

Re: LinkedIn is building a gig marketplace

#145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Normally I would scoff at this, but having had to physically chase down customers before over bounced checks, I could really get behind something unreturnable like cryptocurrency.

Good luck reversing a bank transfer.

Wire transfer fees can be prohibitive for small contracts, and making an international transfer is quite time consuming, in that it typically requires visiting a physical bank branch.

Re: LinkedIn is building a gig marketplace

#147

5-10 years a lot of development work will be considered blue-collar work started with all the bootcamps, learn to code stuff, plus gameification of hiring process, covid-remote work and an increase in automation and ml tech i can see it as a plausible future

I see this take a lot. It couldn’t be more wrong.

Firstly, let’s talk definitions:

> A white collar worker is a person who performs professional, desk, managerial, or administrative work.

> A blue-collar worker is a working class person who performs manual labor.

But I know what you’re trying to say - that we’ll suddenly find ourselves as the contemptible lower class of workers. Just FYI though: many manual laborers make quite a bit of money and are unionized. Many make over 100k which is good living outside of the bay.

But as to why you’re wrong: There’s still an enormous demand for devs - far more than the supply. The minute that changes, people will stop going to bootcamps and pursue other fields. And even bootcamps don’t help much: someone has to then take on that junior for a few years to make them useful, and nobody wants to do that. Not just anybody can be a dev. I used to tell people learn to code, but the truth is the average person could never handle even the simplest dev tasks. Even people with CS degrees seem to struggle for their first year (some struggle for their entire careers).

ML isn’t quite snake oil, but it’s sold like it. It does some things well but it’s falling short and in need of a breakthrough.

Not to mention our work is very important to these companies. Small mistakes can kill the company. Good work can make 100x+ our cost. And the better devs are several times more valuable than the mediocre ones. If developers were under real threat of being commodified, you’d see unionization happen so fast. There’s a reason companies move from outsourcing to insourcing - if the cheaper devs were working out, it wouldn’t make any sense.

Re: LinkedIn is building a gig marketplace

#148
post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the weakness of both, Upwork and Fiverr is that they focus too much on the demand side. Yes, they only attract marginalised developers. Any "good" developer will be working full time in a well paid job. In the unlikely event that they want to choose to be a contractor, they probably have the capacity to set up their own gigs. The whole business model of Upwork and Fiverr is predicated on some sort of unhealthy comb…

Neo-liberalism I’ll give you, but I’m having a hard time finding the mild racism. As a buyer in fiverr, I know the country the contractor is in and I think that’s it. It’s been a few months since I bought a logo there. I suppose I could think “I don’t like people from country X, so I won’t offer any work to someone from there”, but if I thought that way, it seems my preferences are easier to enforce in other contexts…

Not sure what your parent meant, but I know plenty of companies who hire on Upwork and Fiverr a lot and immediately filter out people from India, Pakistan, Bangladesh because of prior experience with (extremely) bad quality.

Re: LinkedIn is building a gig marketplace

#149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of stuff is more or less illegal. Especially in employment, as long as nobody sues, nobody cares. And which freelancer would sue? Or which employee, as far as that's concerned? And even if, worst case is a small fine for the employer. Unfortunately.

You are wrong here. In Europe, the fines after such a behavior for bigger companies could be easily in millions, even tens of millions of euros. That's why I am not aware of a single big company here doing it. Even those that have US branches with detailed monitoring there don't dare to run anything similar here. Once you get used to be treated like a human being its hard and irrational to accept anything less.

Sometimes even big ones are doing these things, not explicitly surveillance so. Also true, smaller companies are more likely to be sketchy.

And unfortunately, these large fines are rare, hard to enforce by employees. The really extreme US stuff is not used, that's true.

Re: LinkedIn is building a gig marketplace

#150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And as a freelancer, I will never take fixed-price contracts. Find someone else for this hell.

> And as a freelancer, I will never take fixed-price contracts. Find someone else for this hell. Can you explain why you think this? Courses/books on freelancing I've looked at generally strongly advise getting away from hourly, so it's interesting how both extremes of this advice exist. My hypothesis is a lot of freelancers get burned on their first projects because there's a learning curving in controlling scope cr…

Not GP but presumably because of scope creep, disagreement about what the original extent was to be that was paid for all in one.

I've seen that recommendation to 'get away from hourly' a lot too (I don't freelance) but I think that means (certainly doesn't have to mean) get away from charging for time entirely. Many professions (e.g. architects, solicitors, accountants, tax advisors) charge for time. I think the suggestion is usually to move from hourly to daily/weekly, some larger unit of time that's a more appropriate block for building software, allowing that 'thinking time' where you sort of did something else ('afk') but were working, since it's just part of the day.

Post reply on HN