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I helped build ByteDance's censorship machine

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Re: I helped build ByteDance's censorship machine

#11

Post by xvector »

Surprise, Chinese websites enforce political censorship within China? I am not sure what is news here. Are we going to pretend the NSA doesn’t integrate with PRISM to make lists of its own?

Because they are beholden to the government, corporate control over the public square has us all fucked. Today people cheer Big Tech’s ability to censor distasteful politics from the public square. Tomorrow, when “content moderation” makes civil disobedience impossible to publicize, we will lament the lack of decentralized social media.

In other words, centralized social media cements moves towards authoritarianism, but makes it very difficult to move back in the other direction, especially if attempted via the most tried and true methods in history.

The revolution won’t be televised. You won’t find it on Twitter or Douyin either. So why did anyone expect anything different? Unless the people can take back control of the public square from the corporations, democracy will crack.

Edit: consider responding with something coherent rather than downvoting and moving on

Re: I helped build ByteDance's censorship machine

#12

Post by throwaway2474 »

kypro wrote: post #4

It would be interesting if someone from China could comment on censorship in China. Is there a fraction of people who agrees with it or is almost it universally disapproved of? Some of these arguments for censorship made in this article sound eerily similar to how we justify censorship in the West. > Our role was to make sure that low-level content moderators could find "harmful and dangerous content" as soon as poss…

It’s very different. The West begins with privacy as a basic expectation, and is surprised when it doesn’t exist. In China it is never assumed in the first place (between individuals and the state). People accept the surveillance and mostly trust the state to act responsibly, or at least don’t see it as a major problem the way it’s seen in the US. Companies proudly display this kind of censorship and surveillance tech, and get very little social pushback.

Re: I helped build ByteDance's censorship machine

#13

Post by cirenehc »

throwaway2474 wrote: post #12
kypro wrote: post #4

It would be interesting if someone from China could comment on censorship in China. Is there a fraction of people who agrees with it or is almost it universally disapproved of? Some of these arguments for censorship made in this article sound eerily similar to how we justify censorship in the West. > Our role was to make sure that low-level content moderators could find "harmful and dangerous content" as soon as poss…

It’s very different. The West begins with privacy as a basic expectation, and is surprised when it doesn’t exist. In China it is never assumed in the first place (between individuals and the state). People accept the surveillance and mostly trust the state to act responsibly, or at least don’t see it as a major problem the way it’s seen in the US. Companies proudly display this kind of censorship and surveillance tec…

I think the concept of privacy directly conflicts with anti-censorship. The most private system is also 100% censored.

Re: I helped build ByteDance's censorship machine

#14

Post by Fauntleroy »

ehmmmmmmmm wrote: post #10
kypro wrote: post #4

It would be interesting if someone from China could comment on censorship in China. Is there a fraction of people who agrees with it or is almost it universally disapproved of? Some of these arguments for censorship made in this article sound eerily similar to how we justify censorship in the West. > Our role was to make sure that low-level content moderators could find "harmful and dangerous content" as soon as poss…

> It would be interesting if someone from China could comment on censorship in China. Is there a fraction of people who agrees with it or is almost it universally disapproved of? In general people don't agree with it. However, for a lot of people, it's not actually on their radar. The reality is most people in China are so engrossed in their work and day-to-day life that censorship isn't really actually an issue for…

You're really conflating a couple other issues in with the original idea here.

Re: I helped build ByteDance's censorship machine

#15

Post by Dig1t »

xvector wrote: post #11

Surprise, Chinese websites enforce political censorship within China? I am not sure what is news here. Are we going to pretend the NSA doesn’t integrate with PRISM to make lists of its own? Because they are beholden to the government, corporate control over the public square has us all fucked. Today people cheer Big Tech’s ability to censor distasteful politics from the public square. Tomorrow, when “content moderati…

The whataboutism WRT to the NSA detracts from the importance of the issue.

> I am not sure what is news here.

In fact, the Chinese government goes to great lengths to downplay and hide the extent of their censorship efforts, and it might actually be a surprise to some people. It is worthwhile discussing ALL forms of censorship, whether it be by the NSA, Beijing, or corporations. The only way we can deal with these issues is by discussing them at length and raising awareness.

Re: I helped build ByteDance's censorship machine

#16

Post by Alupis »

kypro wrote: post #4

It would be interesting if someone from China could comment on censorship in China. Is there a fraction of people who agrees with it or is almost it universally disapproved of? Some of these arguments for censorship made in this article sound eerily similar to how we justify censorship in the West. > Our role was to make sure that low-level content moderators could find "harmful and dangerous content" as soon as poss…

Part of the issue we often forget, here in countries without mass censorship, is what people under these regimes actually experience.

If you are born into, grow up in, and continue to live in a society where all external information flowing into your society is filtered through government censors... would you even know it? If you did, would you think it's bad? Or is that just your government protecting you?

It's literally all you would know.

To understand that it's not that way everywhere... to understand there is a better way of life outside what you've experienced... to understand unfettered access to raw information is a good thing even if it makes your government/country look bad - takes experiencing it first-hand to contrast it against what you've got.

Re: I helped build ByteDance's censorship machine

#17

Post by chrischen »

kypro wrote: post #4

It would be interesting if someone from China could comment on censorship in China. Is there a fraction of people who agrees with it or is almost it universally disapproved of? Some of these arguments for censorship made in this article sound eerily similar to how we justify censorship in the West. > Our role was to make sure that low-level content moderators could find "harmful and dangerous content" as soon as poss…

I would characterize the biggest difference is that Chinese people are actually aware they are being massively censored, while Americans think they have no censorship.

Re: I helped build ByteDance's censorship machine

#19

Post by [deleted] »

throwaway2474 wrote: post #12
kypro wrote: post #4

It would be interesting if someone from China could comment on censorship in China. Is there a fraction of people who agrees with it or is almost it universally disapproved of? Some of these arguments for censorship made in this article sound eerily similar to how we justify censorship in the West. > Our role was to make sure that low-level content moderators could find "harmful and dangerous content" as soon as poss…

It’s very different. The West begins with privacy as a basic expectation, and is surprised when it doesn’t exist. In China it is never assumed in the first place (between individuals and the state). People accept the surveillance and mostly trust the state to act responsibly, or at least don’t see it as a major problem the way it’s seen in the US. Companies proudly display this kind of censorship and surveillance tec…

[deleted]

Re: I helped build ByteDance's censorship machine

#20

Post by xvector »

Dig1t wrote: post #15
xvector wrote: post #11

Surprise, Chinese websites enforce political censorship within China? I am not sure what is news here. Are we going to pretend the NSA doesn’t integrate with PRISM to make lists of its own? Because they are beholden to the government, corporate control over the public square has us all fucked. Today people cheer Big Tech’s ability to censor distasteful politics from the public square. Tomorrow, when “content moderati…

The whataboutism WRT to the NSA detracts from the importance of the issue. > I am not sure what is news here. In fact, the Chinese government goes to great lengths to downplay and hide the extent of their censorship efforts, and it might actually be a surprise to some people. It is worthwhile discussing ALL forms of censorship, whether it be by the NSA, Beijing, or corporations. The only way we can deal with these is…

I agree. I added a bit describing how whining about government censorship is pointless so long as we support centralized social media, which is the real problem here. It is hypocritical for HN to cheer on censorship by Twitter and Big Tech while upvoting this article.

The fundamental problem here, underlying both Chinese and American censorship/surveillance, is that we have willingly handed control of the public square over to an entity beholden to one that does not have our best interests in mind.

So long as we let the public square rest in the hands of these entities, democracy will slowly slip from our hands, one ban and censor at a time.

You can’t blame China or ByteDance or Twitter or the NSA for this sort of thing. The natural state of governments and corporations is vying for more power and wealth at all costs, democracy be damned. The blame rests on us, the people, for trusting corporations with our speech.

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