Falling sperm counts, declining egg quality, and endocrine disruptors • Hacker News Board

Re: Falling sperm counts, declining egg quality, and endocrine disruptors

#571

Post by mountainb » Tue, Feb 23, 2021, 10:47 PM UTC

hojjat12000 wrote: post #473

rhinoceraptor wrote: post #455

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least in men, there is a very clear mechanism. If you have excess body fat, your aromatase may be overexpressed, and if so, you will convert more of your testosterone to estradiol. This interacts with the hypothalamus' negative feedback loop, lowering your GnRH, (and therefore your LH/FSH) making you less fertile and lowering your testosterone until homeostasis is achieved.

I was recently watching a video on Doublespeak[0], one of the types of doublespeak is to bombard the audience with technical jargon which means you automatically win, unless they know more technical terms than you do! In your case, your comment does not mean anything to me (or probably 99% of the HN users). Instead of this, you could at least cite a reputable source for this claim, this would be 100 times more effect…

It's not that esoteric... spend the same amount of time you did on watching that Youtube video on reading about the topic. Alternatively, search for questions on Youtube and you will have a similar explanation read out to you from a selection of 40,000 different bodybuilders.

Re: Falling sperm counts, declining egg quality, and endocrine disruptors

#572

Post by DoreenMichele » Tue, Feb 23, 2021, 10:57 PM UTC

com2kid wrote: post #507

DoreenMichele wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

we've been eating GMOs for millenia. That's a little like saying "There's zero difference between traditional animal husbandry and cloning." Sorry, I think there is a meaningful distinction between traditional human intervention in plant varieties and the more recent intervention called GMO. Most of the world seems to agree that there is a distinction, enough so that we invented new language for what it is we are doi…

> Sorry, I think there is a meaningful distinction between traditional human intervention in plant varieties and the more recent intervention called GMO. One is a semi-random process where an unknown (but large!) number of genes are modified in the hopes of getting a few desired good traits to express themselves. The other is a targeted change to the smallest number of genes to get a single desired good trait to be e…

Because "all GMO is bad" is nonsensical.

That's an extremely gross misinterpretation of my point which boils down to "The effects may be different on different populations due to variables you are overlooking, such as (for example) they could be eating fundamentally different plants that happen to go by the same name."

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26235356

The degree to which people actively twist my comments to railroad me with their bizarre garbage makes it enormously difficult to participate here in good faith at all. I should probably go get some other hobby and stop wasting my time on a bunch of people hellbent on trying to make me look like a nutter no matter how mild and reasonable a point I am trying to make.

Re: Falling sperm counts, declining egg quality, and endocrine disruptors

#573

Post by cblconfederate » Tue, Feb 23, 2021, 11:02 PM UTC

pseudalopex wrote: post #557

cblconfederate wrote: post #542

Earlier quoted context omitted.

there would be a significant correlation however

Only if the mechanism is the same.

I would say that gender identity correlates with sexual preference by definition, regardless of mechanism

Re: Falling sperm counts, declining egg quality, and endocrine disruptors

#574

Post by refurb » Tue, Feb 23, 2021, 11:16 PM UTC

jeffreyrogers wrote: post #399

refurb wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not going to lie but that 2nd reference is terrible. It’s a meta-analysis and a bunch of the odds ratios overlap with 1 (no effect). I’m not saying endocrine disruptors are harmless, but multiple things need to be proven before you can make any conclusions: 1. A specific endocrine disruptor has a negative biological effect. 2. That specific disruptor is found in common items. 3. That specific disruptor can be leeched…

If there is anecdotal and circumstantial evidence that something is bad for you, and most of the people who avoid that thing are visibly healthier than those who don't, shouldn't you avoid it out of caution? This is also a sensitive topic to research because it impacts an enormous part of the economy if these things are shown to be harmful, and in many cases there are not good substitutes that are safe and economical…

You missed my point. I said nothing about avoiding these chemicals. My comment was around claiming a connection with no supported data.

No, I don’t put much weight on anecdotal and circumstantial evidence. If we’re going to “follow the science” then it needs to be well supported science, no some person’s claim how they feel better after avoiding some perceived toxin.

Re: Falling sperm counts, declining egg quality, and endocrine disruptors

#575

Post by DoreenMichele » Tue, Feb 23, 2021, 11:30 PM UTC

eyko wrote: post #466

DoreenMichele wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

we've been eating GMOs for millenia. That's a little like saying "There's zero difference between traditional animal husbandry and cloning." Sorry, I think there is a meaningful distinction between traditional human intervention in plant varieties and the more recent intervention called GMO. Most of the world seems to agree that there is a distinction, enough so that we invented new language for what it is we are doi…

My apologies. When I added the "blindly lump ..." sentence, I didn't wasn't replying directly at your comment, but rather in reference to the worrying trend amongst anti-gmo movements to lump any GMO related practices in the same basket. > That's a little like saying "There's zero difference between traditional animal husbandry and cloning." This is a very interesting topic, actually! I can't comment on animal husban…

I've more or less said twice I'm leaving this discussion. I'm only replying here because I think your comment here is a good faith, but misguided, attempt to engage.

My initial comment was just to make the point "Maybe you can't use Asians and their experiences as a rebuttal for some American study because maybe it's an apples to oranges comparison."

I could have said that without mentioning GMO. It's not necessarily hugely pertinent to the point.

But everyone is latching on to that detail and this has gotten enormously whackadoodle.

I stand by my original point. I even stand by everything else I've said here.

But other people reacting like I'm some strident anti GMO nutter for mildly observing that "GMO plants may be fundamentally different from non GMO plants" is not something I have any desire to engage with further.

Re: Falling sperm counts, declining egg quality, and endocrine disruptors

#576

Post by 0134340 » Tue, Feb 23, 2021, 11:38 PM UTC

gamblor956 wrote: post #503

ejolto wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not OP but I do this by avoiding processed foods, making everything "from scratch". Examples: - Pizza sauce from crushed tomatoes, tomato puré and spices. - Marinade for marinating meat from spices and olive oil and either balsamic vinegar or lime. - Pick my own blueberries that I freeze and put in plain yoghurt.

Word of caution: most food cans are lined with BPA. Try to avoid canned food products and make the puree yourself if possible.

Most food either comes canned or in plastic containers. Even the "fresh" foods will likely have pesticide residue so I guess grow our own garden? Of course that's probably out of the question in urban environments due to many toxic chemicals in the soil so ugh, we're truly excrementing where we sleep aren't we?

Re: Falling sperm counts, declining egg quality, and endocrine disruptors

#577

Post by 0134340 » Tue, Feb 23, 2021, 11:49 PM UTC

hypertele-Xii wrote: post #558

DoingIsLearning wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No aluminium I missed that one, what is wrong with Aluminium for cookware? Can you point to any source on that?

It's very mildly toxic. Acidic foods react with it and metal leaks into the food. It's why canned food says you should transfer it to another container after opening. I assume greater temperatures accelerate this process, as heat makes molecules move, though I'm no expert on crystalline structures in metals. Searching for "aluminium toxicity" will bring up many results. Titanium, on the other hand, is so safe to our…

>Titanium, on the other hand, is so safe to our bodies that it's used in surgical implants.

So is Teflon used surgically and considered safe but only at biological temperatures and slightly above. Maybe titanium doesn't have such dark secrets as Teflon.

Re: Falling sperm counts, declining egg quality, and endocrine disruptors

#578

Post by hojjat12000 » Wed, Feb 24, 2021, 12:11 AM UTC

mountainb wrote: post #571

hojjat12000 wrote: post #473

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was recently watching a video on Doublespeak[0], one of the types of doublespeak is to bombard the audience with technical jargon which means you automatically win, unless they know more technical terms than you do! In your case, your comment does not mean anything to me (or probably 99% of the HN users). Instead of this, you could at least cite a reputable source for this claim, this would be 100 times more effect…

It's not that esoteric... spend the same amount of time you did on watching that Youtube video on reading about the topic. Alternatively, search for questions on Youtube and you will have a similar explanation read out to you from a selection of 40,000 different bodybuilders.

That video (which has nothing to do with biology, and is related to discussion and arguments, the thing we are doing now) is 16 minutes long. Are you seriously suggesting that with 16 minutes of reading biology I will know:

  * What is aromatase and what is the relationship between an overexpressed aromatase and excess body fat
  * What is estradiol and what is the possible reasons for converting testosterone to estradiol
  * What is the negative feedback loop in the hypothalamus and what is the interactions between estradiol and the hypothalamus' negative feedback loop
  * What is GnRH and what causes the lowering of my GnRH
  * What is LH/FSH and why is it obvious that low GnRH causes a lower LH/FSH
  * How are these related to fertility

All of this in 16 minutes?

IMPORTANT: To be honest I am willing to read (obviously more than 16 minutes) to learn about this stuff, as you can see in my comment, I'm asking for something to read! a link to a place that explains these. Even if it takes more than 16 minutes. Of course, I'm sure somewhere on the internet these information exist. But just writing a claim without any citation, is not helpful.

Re: Falling sperm counts, declining egg quality, and endocrine disruptors

#579

Post by acdha » Wed, Feb 24, 2021, 12:20 AM UTC

exolymph wrote: post #528

hojjat12000 wrote: post #473

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was recently watching a video on Doublespeak[0], one of the types of doublespeak is to bombard the audience with technical jargon which means you automatically win, unless they know more technical terms than you do! In your case, your comment does not mean anything to me (or probably 99% of the HN users). Instead of this, you could at least cite a reputable source for this claim, this would be 100 times more effect…

You can't outsource your judgment. Do the research yourself if you want to understand something.

Doesn't just about everyone outsource their judgement on a regular basis? Most people rely on others to do tasks they either cannot do at all or as efficiently because we trust that our doctor, lawyer, programmer, sysadmin, carpenter, electrician, auto mechanic, etc. has better judgement than we have time to acquire.

What makes that work is what the person you're replying to asked for: sources. I don't get medical advice from random strangers on the street, I get it from people who have credentials or organizations which hire those people. When I get a contractor, I'm looking at their licenses to assume that they at least know how to install a dishwasher to code.

Re: Falling sperm counts, declining egg quality, and endocrine disruptors

#580

Post by omilu » Wed, Feb 24, 2021, 1:51 AM UTC

tenebrisalietum wrote: post #501

greenonions wrote: post #429

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shocking to think that our society would discount the future for the present... On a serious note however, babies and a growing population is an enormous advantage to a nation. I would think it would be massively popular to increase benefits to those who are having children. Full disclosure, I found out my wife is pregnant yesterday, but still.

Babies and a growing population is an enormous advantage only if there are enough resources for everyone and they are distributed in such a form that does not end up cause social infighting. Otherwise it just contributes to instability. There are also women who are infertile due to no fault of their own (e.g. cancer, etc.), why should they be excluded from any resources whatsoever due to something that is not their f…

>There are also women who are infertile due to no fault of their own (e.g. cancer, etc.), why should they be excluded from any resources whatsoever due to something that is not their fault?

For the greater good of others, taking one for the team.