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Letters from House members to cable providers [pdf]

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Re: Letters from House members to cable providers [pdf]

#241
It's heavy handed, but not surprising. My guess is they're trying to collect information to make a case for some sort of fine and/or injunction and/or censorship of specific instances of misinformation that may be related to the recent insurrection.

The courts have held that government can restrict free speech to further national security, so it's not novel. At the same time, proving a relationship between media corporation misinformation and the insurrection would be very difficult.

Periodically, the Supreme Court has examined whether the government can restrict speech to further the compelling interests of national security. In doing so, the Court has recognized that national security, as a governmental interest, does justify restrictions on First Amendment rights. In the landmark free press decision Near v. Minnesota (1931), the Court established a general rule against prior restraints on expression. However, the Court did note that the government could shut down a newspaper if it published military secrets: “No one would question but that a government might prevent actual obstruction to its recruiting service or the publication of the sailing dates of transports or the number and location of troops.”

Nevertheless, the government must provide proof that national security interests really are in play—that is, the government cannot simply use national security as a blank check to sidestep constitutional challenges. In New York Times Co. v. United States (1971), the majority of the Court rejected the government’s national security justifications for attempting to prevent the New York Times and the Washington Post from publishing the Pentagon Papers, the top-secret history of the U.S. involvement in the Vietnam War. In his concurring opinion, Justice Hugo L. Black explained that “the word ‘security’ is a broad, vague generality whose contours should not be invoked to abrogate the fundamental law embodied in the First Amendment.”

https://www.mtsu.edu/first-amendment/article/1134/national-s...

Re: Letters from House members to cable providers [pdf]

#242
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can compare yelling "Fire!" in a crowded theatre to a lot of speech, for example, speech that is against a military draft. This was the original comparison. Luckily we (the United States) prevent our government from restricting this type of speech.

Like bhupy pointed out above, is the misinformation present directed to inciting or producing imminent lawless action and is likely to incite or produce such action? If a speech against the draft incites some subset of those who were present to insurrection, with the intent to detain and possibly murder elected officials, then it may not be protected as free speech.

[deleted]

Re: Letters from House members to cable providers [pdf]

#243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably the one with the presidency, house, senate, most of the media, and social media content moderation.

I just don't understand the parent post, the Democrats want MORE people to be able to vote, how is that "planning to never lose an election again"? The Republicans are the only ones who ever fight to suppress votes, most recently the attacks on absentee voting in Georgia, which are a direct result of two Democrats winning there and has absolutely nothing to do with "illegal immigrants" or election security on any lev…

The point in question is not whether it is justified or moral single-party rule. It is whether there is a shift towards single-party dominance.

Re: Letters from House members to cable providers [pdf]

#244
post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Worse than that, it is an attempt at intimidation. Given today's climate, it would not surprise me if it works. Look at it this way. The capital riot on 6-Jan was planned and discussed on Youtube, facebook, and twitter. Apparently, barely a mention on Parler. Yet Parler was excoriated and deplatformed for it, and for not policing its comment sections. Yet Youtube, facebook, and twitter have faced no consequences for…

Parler was kicked off of AWS for violating AWS’s policies. I’m pretty sure I don’t have to tell you that YouTube and Facebook don’t use AWS.

Why were they removed from Google and Apple's app stores while Facebook, Youtube and Twitter are still available?

Twitter uses AWS for some of their stuff. Why aren't they removed for violating AWS's policies?

Re: Letters from House members to cable providers [pdf]

#245
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The inevitability of the abuse of political power is not something that has to be debated over and over again in every thread. I don't contest this, what I contest is the idea that there is comparable misinformation on both sides. rayiner has since updated his post with some examples that he thinks constitute misinformation by news sources themselves, but before the only example given was the tweets from the Washing…

what I contest is the idea that there is comparable misinformation on both sides I don't see that we need to even consider the question of parity. Saying that one side or another is worse, and therefore requires special attention, is wrong: it's false that only the worst offender should be policed. All sides should be subject to the same rules, whether they're doing it a lot or just a little. My personal philosophy i…

>All sides should be subject to the same rules, whether they're doing it a lot or just a little.

Sure, absolutely.

>Saying that one side or another is worse, and therefore requires special attention, is wrong: it's false that only the worst offender should be policed.

This is not my position, I just disagree that the "left-wing" media outlets that rayiner identified are materially engaged in misinformation in the same way that the outlets identified in these letters are.

But I also don't really want to litigate this question, as it's a recipe for a flame war.

>My personal philosophy is that for all sides, the remedy is to encourage more information to shine light on the falsehoods, rather than trying to gag any ideas.

In general I agree, but we're in a state of exception right now. Since 1/6, certain ideas have now proved themselves to be dangerous to (small-d) democratic rule. I don't think this is an easy question to answer, or I would be giving the easy answer, instead of asking the question: what actions are legitimate in this instance to preserve democracy, and do they include regulating the speech of institutions which reject majority rule? Karl Popper has an answer here, but I'm a pretty strict constitutionalist and a strong believer in freedom of speech, so I can't unreservedly suggest the government should intervene.

Re: Letters from House members to cable providers [pdf]

#246
post #189

Is anyone finding this terrifying? When did democrafts, the party I vote for, become the people calling for tight censorship in every sector? Weren't the last people to make this move (more more ineffectively, thankfully) the Christian right? Is there something we can do to stand up for speech?

The dirty secret of American hyperpartisan battle is that the two parties in the US are fundamentally identical where it counts: pro-surveillance, authoritarian war machines.

And don't forget pro-corporate, which has been historically the norm, to the point of overthrowing other governments to protect crop yields / revenue.

There was a study that came out a few years ago, and I can't find it, but the point was that any laws passed that the general citizenry want were purely incidental. All the laws passed over the last 20 years or so directly benefited corporate and special interest groups.

Another person described the spectrum of the various forms of democracy as a highway. The went on to describe the two US political parties as the two parallel lines dividing the highway.

/rant

Re: Letters from House members to cable providers [pdf]

#247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The comment about how Fox News has not spent years spewing misinformation simply because it is only talking about "Stop the Steal" nonsense is missing the forest for the trees. I rarely watch anything from Fox News, so I wouldn't know. The point is the Vox article cited in the letter does not back up the statement made. If it's as bad as you say, surely there must be a better source to cite. Regardless of any issue…

There are volumes written about the subject already. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fox_News_controversies#Studies... For example: https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2020/10/study-explore...

Then it shouldn't have been difficult for professional representatives of the House to find a good source.

Re: Letters from House members to cable providers [pdf]

#248
post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is asking Fox for viewership numbers, "a chilling attempt at limiting speech"?

It's a legislative body which is trying to limit speech not through legislation but through intimidation. They could pass a law and have it struck down nearly immediately, or they could flog CEO's in public for their own amusement.

> It's a legislative body which is trying to limit speech not through legislation but through intimidation

Bingo!

When these CEO's enact new policies that censors "Right-Think", it'll be totally okay because it's not the Government limiting Free Speech - private companies are allowed to limit Free Speech, don't you see!

Re: Letters from House members to cable providers [pdf]

#249
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's even worse when you think people are evil simply because they disagree with you!

You should see how upset people were when you told them you think Trump is a great president. At my last job, the IT admin was so upset that he told me that he will not do any of my incidents. No discussion what so ever.

There's nothing more just than vengeance.

Re: Letters from House members to cable providers [pdf]

#250

I think the crux of the issue is not freedom of speech, but rather determining what counts as harmful disinformation. I imagine we all agree that disinformation should be curbed; the point of contention is precisely where we should draw the line. The violent, seditious sentiments present in America today are a direct result of people being permitted to pander dangerous lies with no consequences, lies which have cause…

You've successfully made the opposite side's point. You cite election-fraud misinformation as "leading to deaths", which is misinformation itself: the 5 deaths at the Capitol were 3 rioters having a heart attack, stroke, and apparently trampled; 1 rioter shot by a security person; and 1 Capitol policeman who died the next day of causes unknown to his own family still, yet erroneously trumpeted by NYT etc. as being killed by a fire extinguisher.

And, armed with this disinformation, you propose to abandon one of the core societal principles which has allowed America to succeed beyond anyone's imaginations. Now hopefully you can see why everyone's alarmed about what's going on.

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