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Nintendo DS-TV-Out Restoration Project

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Re: Nintendo DS-TV-Out Restoration Project

#41

Post by bogwog »

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #23
bogwog wrote: post #16

And to think Nintendo wants these to end up in a landfill. Imagine if jailbreaking video game consoles (that is, modifying hardware that you own however you want), were actually legal. Old consoles like these could continue to provide value to owners via competing app stores, free and open source apps/games, cool hardware features like the OP, etc. All of that could happen without infringing on Nintendo's rights, or…

To that extent that Nintendo has any influence in this area, I'd say they're quite supportive of people using their old hardware. Many Nintendo games display discontinued devices prominently (WarioWare, Animal Crossing), and there are stories on Twitter of Nintendo phone reps helping troubleshoot NES and SNES hardware issues. Nintendo won't support people pirating their games , but as much as I think copyright lasts…

> To that extent that Nintendo has any influence in this area, I'd say they're quite supportive of people using their old hardware.

Nintendo is a member of the Entertainment Software Association (https://www.theesa.com/), which AFAIK is the main entity lobbying to keep console jailbreaking illegal.

Not to mention the fact that Nintendo shuts down online services and digital stores for old consoles, which means that you can't even download games you've purchased anymore.

Also, the issue isn't about whether Nintendo wants people to play old games on old hardware, it's that Nintendo doesn't want you to play new software on old hardware, and that they're actually able to enforce this through the DMCA's arbitrary special restrictions for video game consoles (by comparison, jailbreaking phones is perfectly legal under the DMCA)

That both suppresses competition, directly hurts consumers, and is just wasteful.

Re: Nintendo DS-TV-Out Restoration Project

#42

Post by bogwog »

djmips wrote: post #39
bumbada wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who jailbroke his DS in order to program and run homebrew on it, it was far from ideal. You needed so many tricks in order to run those fast enough, like removing floating point code and replacing it with integer replacement for the different CPUs it had. All the API had to be reverse engineered. Programming mobile phones,or raspberrys is much better and you have much more freedom.

Pis you have a point but phones are far from having 'freedom'

How many people own a raspberry pi with a screen (or two), battery, wireless connectivity, and enclosure with built-in digital/analog controls? Probably less than 154 million[1]

1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_game_cons...

Re: Nintendo DS-TV-Out Restoration Project

#44

Post by lapetitejort »

fredoralive wrote: post #36
marinhero wrote: post #32

Could this be one of the first iterations of the Switch?

Nintendo have offered handheld-on-TV options before with the Super Game Boy for SNES and Game Boy Player for Gamecube, so them considering a TV output for a DS wouldn't be entirely out of the question, although the dual screen / touchscreen nature of the DS would make it rather awkward. Although as others have noted, adding it to the chipset might have been intended to make store demo units or developer / reviewer te…

Nintendo also offered the Wide Boy 64 [0] to devs and journalists to capture GB/GBC/GBA footage.

[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nintendo_64_accessories#Wide-B...

Re: Nintendo DS-TV-Out Restoration Project

#45

Post by Wowfunhappy »

bogwog wrote: post #41
Wowfunhappy wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To that extent that Nintendo has any influence in this area, I'd say they're quite supportive of people using their old hardware. Many Nintendo games display discontinued devices prominently (WarioWare, Animal Crossing), and there are stories on Twitter of Nintendo phone reps helping troubleshoot NES and SNES hardware issues. Nintendo won't support people pirating their games , but as much as I think copyright lasts…

> To that extent that Nintendo has any influence in this area, I'd say they're quite supportive of people using their old hardware. Nintendo is a member of the Entertainment Software Association ( https://www.theesa.com/ ), which AFAIK is the main entity lobbying to keep console jailbreaking illegal. Not to mention the fact that Nintendo shuts down online services and digital stores for old consoles, which means that…

But I don't think a logical extension from that is "Nintendo wants these to end up in a landfill."

Re: Nintendo DS-TV-Out Restoration Project

#46

Post by bogwog »

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #45
bogwog wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> To that extent that Nintendo has any influence in this area, I'd say they're quite supportive of people using their old hardware. Nintendo is a member of the Entertainment Software Association ( https://www.theesa.com/ ), which AFAIK is the main entity lobbying to keep console jailbreaking illegal. Not to mention the fact that Nintendo shuts down online services and digital stores for old consoles, which means that…

But I don't think a logical extension from that is "Nintendo wants these to end up in a landfill."

Why not?

* If these consoles have no more utility, people will throw them away, and they will end up in a landfill. When this happens, they will want to buy a new console to play new games, and Nintendo will sell it to them.

* With more consoles in the trash, there will be less circulating in the world, creating a shortage and inflating the value of old IP. They can profit off of this by re-releasing or re-mastering those old games on new consoles (until those too are deprecated and the cycle repeats)

* Nintendo is taking actions to deteriorate the utility of peoples' old consoles. They do this by halting development of new games for it, shutting down online services, and shutting down digital sales of games.

* Nintendo is funding a lobbyist group that is fighting to prevent consumers from modifying their hardware to extend its useful life

* If people are allowed to jailbreak their console, a "homebrew" software community may take off, which could lead to customers willing to pay money for software by third party publishers; aka, competition for Nintendo within their own walled garden.

Based on those observations, it's obvious what Nintendo's position on the issue is. The path of least resistance and most profit is to encourage (or force) customers to throw their old consoles away and buy new ones.

Maybe they don't care if it specifically goes to a landfill, but they certainly want it in the trash.

Re: Nintendo DS-TV-Out Restoration Project

#47

Post by Wowfunhappy »

bogwog wrote: post #46
Wowfunhappy wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But I don't think a logical extension from that is "Nintendo wants these to end up in a landfill."

Why not? * If these consoles have no more utility, people will throw them away, and they will end up in a landfill. When this happens, they will want to buy a new console to play new games, and Nintendo will sell it to them. * With more consoles in the trash, there will be less circulating in the world, creating a shortage and inflating the value of old IP. They can profit off of this by re-releasing or re-mastering…

Because the type of person who tracks down an SNES and an original copy of Super Mario World on eBay is more likely to also buy a Nintendo Switch and Super Mario Odyssey. It's not an either-or. Nintendo's brand benefits from the level of affection people hold for old consoles, and so it's in their interest to have a lively second-hand market.

I don't think Nintendo cares enough to keep digital services running indefinitely, which is a shame. They did keep the Wii Shop Channel up until 2019, which is a considerable lifespan for a 2006 console. I've also never seen Nintendo take steps to curb mods for out-of-production hardware. Their hostility is reserved for emulators (because almost no one actually uses those to play roms they ripped themselves), and for mods of products they're actively producing.

To be clear, I'm opposed to closed hardware, and the ESA's stance. But I do read Nintendo's actions as broadly "supportive" of their old products, for understandable reasons. The caveat is that Nintendo wants you to use those products as designed—to play original, Nintendo-licensed cartridges on original Nintendo hardware.

And I'd hazard a guess that a significantly smaller percentage of old working Nintendo consoles end up in landfills than old working iPhones.

Re: Nintendo DS-TV-Out Restoration Project

#48

Post by bpiche »

cbanek wrote: post #17

I wish I could have decent output of a 3DS! I was looking into it and apparently it is really hard and one of the small setups modding them in Japan recently closed down!

Kind of serendipitous but I have been getting really into DSi, N3DS, and PSP hacking recently and just watched this video last night. Take a look. I think it will blow your mind. I didn't make this video, of course.

"N3DSXL Hardware Mods Part II, Including Wireless Streaming" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7lGI3yGzPQ

Re: Nintendo DS-TV-Out Restoration Project

#49

Post by bpiche »

post_break wrote: post #7

I just wish I picked up a DS. The prices for them now is ridiculous.

I have bought about 8 DSi/DSi XL, a Phat DS, an SP, and a GBA over the last few months and never paid more than 80 for any of them. The average price for a used Phat DS or DSi on eBay is $50 bucks in my experience. It's extremely easy to hack the DSi as well.
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