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Nextcloud Hub 21

nextcloud.com

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Re: Nextcloud Hub 21

#31

Post by znpy »

prophesi wrote: post #21
znpy wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 1) I upgrade from 17->18->19->20->21 and hope nothing breaks! I did a similar path (started from 18 iirc) and nothing broke. But there's a catch, because I have some safeguards in place: 1. Nextcloud has its own dataset in a ZFS zpool. I take snapshots hourly, and I took a snapshot just before upgrading 2. I run nextcloud and its own postgreql via docker-compose. the docker-compose file along with the configuration…

> You don't have a nextcloud problem, you have a system administration problem. Those aren't mutually exclusive. Sure, better dev ops would make major upgrades safer and easier. But for a hobbyist self-hosting their own instance, a LTS release would be a godsend to save them hours of unpaid work.

An good hobbyist should challenge themselves from time to time ;)

Re: Nextcloud Hub 21

#32

Post by znpy »

kop316 wrote: post #25
FredFS456 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my experience of running my own Nextcloud instance for over 4 years, I've never had an upgrade break my instance. Caveat: I'm on the stable channel and I only update when the client prompts me to update, which is a few point releases into a new release.

That's been my experience as well. I have run Owncloud -> Nextcloud (when it was first released) since at least mid-2015, and I am on the same instance I first built. I stay on the stable channel, and I get a notification if an app or nextcloud itself has an upgrade. The biggest issue is that the "Security & setup warnings" sometimes tells me I need to upgrade my database (and gives me the exact commands to do it) af…

> I will note that the upgrade has taken longer over the years (it used to take 5 minutes, now it can take over 30 minutes)

In their defense, the software has grown a lot and does a lot more things nowadays, it's understandable that the upgrade process takes more.

Re: Nextcloud Hub 21

#33

Post by berkes »

e-Minguez wrote: post #22

I'm a little bit worried with the shift from a 'cloud' storage solution to a groupware software... I only need the storage bits but it seems they are focusing on the groupware thing lately...

I presume that is where the money is.

Either independent contributors who make money as consultants, or a foundation that gets sponsoring, or a commercial company behind the project: enterprise has the money. So inevitable, it will gravitaye towards more enterprisey features.

I'm not saying that I have knowledge about what happens here with Nextcloud. But in FLOSS this has been seen often: from Drupal to LibreOffice: it moves away from 'consumers with simple needs' and towards 'heavy users'.

Re: Nextcloud Hub 21

#34

Post by dsr_ »

znpy wrote: post #30
contravariant wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't disagree but as a hobbyist I don't really want system administration problems. Well and I was mostly interested in Nextcloud as a possible alternative to Dropbox/Google drive with versioning and, I hoped, backups. However the only proper backup solution that I could confidently state would allow me to recover should disaster strike was the one you just explained e.g. putting everything in docker and snapshott…

First things first: don't get me wrong, I do understand your point. The thing is: you have a system administration problem, whether you want or not (that is a big part of what you're actually paying for when you buy Dropbox or when you let Google feed on your data). Now, as an hobbyist, when you start depending on services you set up and manage yourself, it would be a good idea to take some time to learn additional t…

> you have a system administration problem, whether you want or not

Right. You can pay people to do things for you, or you can do them yourself, but either way the things have to be done, and they should be done by someone who is good at it and has a contract with you -- employment or otherwise.

Re: Nextcloud Hub 21

#35

Post by znpy »

dsr_ wrote: post #34
znpy wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First things first: don't get me wrong, I do understand your point. The thing is: you have a system administration problem, whether you want or not (that is a big part of what you're actually paying for when you buy Dropbox or when you let Google feed on your data). Now, as an hobbyist, when you start depending on services you set up and manage yourself, it would be a good idea to take some time to learn additional t…

> you have a system administration problem, whether you want or not Right. You can pay people to do things for you, or you can do them yourself, but either way the things have to be done, and they should be done by someone who is good at it and has a contract with you -- employment or otherwise.

> should be done by someone who is good at it

I'm not 100% okay with this statement.

One has to be able to start somewhere. How do you "get good at it" ? You proceed via steps. you challenge yourself, you reach an improvement, enjoy that improvement for a while, then you challenge yourself again when you see room for improvement.

But just saying "nah let somebody else do that" is not what we want here. We're hobbyist, we want and enjoy doing stuff ourselves. Doing a sub-optimal work is okay, we will improve over time :)

sharing our experiences and procedures here is part of that

Re: Nextcloud Hub 21

#36

Post by kop316 »

znpy wrote: post #32
kop316 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's been my experience as well. I have run Owncloud -> Nextcloud (when it was first released) since at least mid-2015, and I am on the same instance I first built. I stay on the stable channel, and I get a notification if an app or nextcloud itself has an upgrade. The biggest issue is that the "Security & setup warnings" sometimes tells me I need to upgrade my database (and gives me the exact commands to do it) af…

> I will note that the upgrade has taken longer over the years (it used to take 5 minutes, now it can take over 30 minutes) In their defense, the software has grown a lot and does a lot more things nowadays, it's understandable that the upgrade process takes more.

Yeah, I was assuming it was either that, but I do notice that "backup" takes a long time. As soon as backup is done it is on the order of 4-5 minutes. But then again, I store something like 5 TB worth of files on my Nextcloud, so it could be me as well to.

Re: Nextcloud Hub 21

#37

Post by zelon88 »

znpy wrote: post #31
prophesi wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You don't have a nextcloud problem, you have a system administration problem. Those aren't mutually exclusive. Sure, better dev ops would make major upgrades safer and easier. But for a hobbyist self-hosting their own instance, a LTS release would be a godsend to save them hours of unpaid work.

An good hobbyist should challenge themselves from time to time ;)

We wouldn't tell Google engineers to mess with his Google drive in prod... why should he sacrifice data availability and integrity?

Re: Nextcloud Hub 21

#38

Post by l72 »

znpy wrote: post #16
l72 wrote: post #14

I really wish there was an LTS release that was supported for at least 2 years (just bugfixes, no new features). I self host my own instance, and I really just want to set it and forget it. I don't mind doing low risk patches every few months or weeks, but I don't want to do a major version upgrade every 4-6 months. I did my last major version upgrade only 15 months ago, and I am now 4 major versions behind, which me…

> 1) I upgrade from 17->18->19->20->21 and hope nothing breaks! I did a similar path (started from 18 iirc) and nothing broke. But there's a catch, because I have some safeguards in place: 1. Nextcloud has its own dataset in a ZFS zpool. I take snapshots hourly, and I took a snapshot just before upgrading 2. I run nextcloud and its own postgreql via docker-compose. the docker-compose file along with the configuration…

That's very true. I run quite a few services on my local network for my family (wireguard, nextcloud, homeassistant, frigate, pihole, jellyfin, bitwarden, ...).

While I enjoy setting up and playing with these service, I need to think about managing all these services as little as possible as I don't want to spend all my free time being a system admin.

Also, often a new release is not just a system admin task. Sure, it may not be _that_ hard to do a full backup, pull new docker images, spin them up and verify everything. The time sink comes from keeping track of all the releases of all the different projects, reading up about changes, how the upgrade process works, and so on.

On top of that, my family has become reliant on several of these services, especially nextcloud and bitwarden. The last thing they want are major changes to it. Long term stability with minimal changes can be a feature!

Re: Nextcloud Hub 21

#39

Post by nickthemagicman »

znpy wrote: post #31
prophesi wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You don't have a nextcloud problem, you have a system administration problem. Those aren't mutually exclusive. Sure, better dev ops would make major upgrades safer and easier. But for a hobbyist self-hosting their own instance, a LTS release would be a godsend to save them hours of unpaid work.

An good hobbyist should challenge themselves from time to time ;)

Maybe they're challenging themselves on things that interest them more...and just want a functioning Nextcloud instance?

Re: Nextcloud Hub 21

#40

Post by zelon88 »

contravariant wrote: post #26
znpy wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 1) I upgrade from 17->18->19->20->21 and hope nothing breaks! I did a similar path (started from 18 iirc) and nothing broke. But there's a catch, because I have some safeguards in place: 1. Nextcloud has its own dataset in a ZFS zpool. I take snapshots hourly, and I took a snapshot just before upgrading 2. I run nextcloud and its own postgreql via docker-compose. the docker-compose file along with the configuration…

I don't disagree but as a hobbyist I don't really want system administration problems. Well and I was mostly interested in Nextcloud as a possible alternative to Dropbox/Google drive with versioning and, I hoped, backups. However the only proper backup solution that I could confidently state would allow me to recover should disaster strike was the one you just explained e.g. putting everything in docker and snapshott…

HRCloud2 has built in backup capability. https://github.com/zelon88/HRCloud2

Full disclosure, I'm the developer.

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