I heat my home by mining crypto currencies • Hacker News Board

Re: I heat my home by mining crypto currencies

#181

Post by tuukkah » Tue, Feb 23, 2021, 1:44 PM UTC

vladvasiliu wrote: post #134

lmilcin wrote: post #10

I wonder if we could make it even better and make smart heaters that instead of wasting calculations actually do something useful, something like folding proteins or some other computing load that doesn't require huge network load and can be easily distributed (something like SETI@home but actually useful). In densely populated cities we could bury huge datacenters underground and use that energy for heating directly…

I think that could be interesting. As others have said, whatever the computations are, if they are being done anyway, might as well use the generated heat for something useful instead of letting it go to waste. But I wonder what would happen with such a system in the summer? For example in most on France it gets pretty cold for long enough every year that having a proper heating system and good insulation makes finan…

District heating is used year round to get warm water.

Re: I heat my home by mining crypto currencies

#182

Post by 420codebro » Tue, Feb 23, 2021, 1:44 PM UTC

zirkonit wrote: post #140

lmilcin wrote: post #10

I wonder if we could make it even better and make smart heaters that instead of wasting calculations actually do something useful, something like folding proteins or some other computing load that doesn't require huge network load and can be easily distributed (something like SETI@home but actually useful). In densely populated cities we could bury huge datacenters underground and use that energy for heating directly…

Another one: Yandex (disclosure: the company I work for) is using one of its datacenters to heat the entire town it is in. Proof: https://helsinkismart.fi/case/waste-not-want-not-data-center...

Interesting. Never ran across someone who worked for Yandex. Overall are you happy with your employer?

Re: I heat my home by mining crypto currencies

#183

Post by pedrocr » Tue, Feb 23, 2021, 1:45 PM UTC

Haemm0r wrote: post #147

pedrocr wrote: post #64

The explanation of needing to pre-heat the air into the heat pump is strange. Modern A/C systems can pump heat at 500%+ efficiency even with very cold outside temperatures, no pre-heating needed. Replacing that with resistances is a 5x or more reduction in efficiency. That heat pump doesn't seem to have an outside unit so may be less efficient but it would need to be very poor to go down to only 100%. Installing a pr…

"Modern A/C systems can pump heat at 500%+ efficiency even with very cold outside temperatures, no pre-heating needed." Name a source please.

Here's a current R32 system by Daikin:

https://www.daikin.co.uk/content/dam/dauk/document-library/d...

SCOP is at 5.15 and that's a seasonally adjusted value. So over the entirety of the winter the unit is expected to deliver 5.15 units of heat for each unit of energy. The unadjusted COP is 6.27. For this unit operational limits are listed at -15C/5F and I think there are units that go quite a bit lower. I haven't looked at that much as -15C is plenty for us. And this is with air to air. With air to ground much higher efficiencies are possible.

For cooling it's even better, with the equivalent SEER at 8.75. The improvements have been so good that the efficiency scale is already at A+++ because the A standard has been so exceeded.

Re: I heat my home by mining crypto currencies

#184

Post by galangalalgol » Tue, Feb 23, 2021, 1:46 PM UTC

vladvasiliu wrote: post #134

lmilcin wrote: post #10

I wonder if we could make it even better and make smart heaters that instead of wasting calculations actually do something useful, something like folding proteins or some other computing load that doesn't require huge network load and can be easily distributed (something like SETI@home but actually useful). In densely populated cities we could bury huge datacenters underground and use that energy for heating directly…

I think that could be interesting. As others have said, whatever the computations are, if they are being done anyway, might as well use the generated heat for something useful instead of letting it go to waste. But I wonder what would happen with such a system in the summer? For example in most on France it gets pretty cold for long enough every year that having a proper heating system and good insulation makes finan…

How hot is hot? A few days ago it was -18 here and now its 27. In a few months we will hit 38. I'm sure I dont want to be doing computations then.

Re: I heat my home by mining crypto currencies

#185

Post by exdsq » Tue, Feb 23, 2021, 1:47 PM UTC

betterunix2 wrote: post #161

inter_netuser wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

do you believe every paper that comes across without critical review? This 31 page paper most definitely has not been fully evaluated by anyone commenting on it in this thread.

In fact, nobody seems to have read the first page, which has a note that the definition of "proof of useful work" in that paper is trivial. An updated version is available here: https://eprint.iacr.org/2018/559

Thanks for finding a better paper, I just went for the first paper with the relevant title as I was on my phone.

Re: I heat my home by mining crypto currencies

#186

Post by arnaudsm » Tue, Feb 23, 2021, 1:52 PM UTC

simias wrote: post #160

arnaudsm wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Heat pumps need energy to operate. Hence at low temperatures the best combo is electricity+heat-pump. So cryptomining+heat-pump is exactly the same, minus the e-waste.

Don't heat pumps work like a fridge/AC but backwards? That is, compressing the air inside to generate heat, then decompressing it outside where it gets extremely cold and is warmed up by the relatively hotter outside air? If so I fail to see how cryptomining features in there.

You're right, the compression step is mechanical. Heat pumps are the most carbon efficient after ~0°C. So in most parts of the globe electrical heat-pumps are the most environment-friendly. Thanks I Edited my first comment.

Re: I heat my home by mining crypto currencies

#187

Post by innocenat » Tue, Feb 23, 2021, 1:53 PM UTC

lmilcin wrote: post #74

innocenat wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is still not viable. Assume your datacenter runs at 50C (122F) and the temperature outside is -40C (-40F), using the datacenter heat to generate electricity has theoretical maximum efficiency of 27.85%. If your datacenter is at 23C (73F) and room temp is 0C (32F), then the theoretical maximum is 7.77%. Note the word 'theoretical maximum', in reality probably at least 10 times worse than that.

You assume DCs are cooled by the whole volume of air inside when in fact you can put heat pipes on components and get closer to 70-90 degrees heat source. Even years ago when I worked in datacenters the air was circulated from outside to the server rack and then back outside, never crossing from the rack into server room. Newer generations of CPUs are going to be exchange less frequently but will produce more energy…

You can supply heat no problem. What I was talking about was recovering energy from heat, which is physically limited by Carnot engine. The percentage was Carnot engine efficiency. Note that it is impossible to create Carnot engine in real life, so actual efficiency is much, much, much lower.

Re: I heat my home by mining crypto currencies

#188

Post by b15h0p » Tue, Feb 23, 2021, 1:53 PM UTC

simias wrote: post #160

arnaudsm wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Heat pumps need energy to operate. Hence at low temperatures the best combo is electricity+heat-pump. So cryptomining+heat-pump is exactly the same, minus the e-waste.

Don't heat pumps work like a fridge/AC but backwards? That is, compressing the air inside to generate heat, then decompressing it outside where it gets extremely cold and is warmed up by the relatively hotter outside air? If so I fail to see how cryptomining features in there.

Yes they do. They usually have classic resistive heating elements for when the outside temperatures drop too low for the heatpump to be efficient.

Re: I heat my home by mining crypto currencies

#189

Post by tuyiown » Tue, Feb 23, 2021, 1:53 PM UTC

simias wrote: post #160

arnaudsm wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Heat pumps need energy to operate. Hence at low temperatures the best combo is electricity+heat-pump. So cryptomining+heat-pump is exactly the same, minus the e-waste.

Don't heat pumps work like a fridge/AC but backwards? That is, compressing the air inside to generate heat, then decompressing it outside where it gets extremely cold and is warmed up by the relatively hotter outside air? If so I fail to see how cryptomining features in there.

Obviously, he meant that the heatpump mined the cryo out of outside cold air… cryomining, cryptomining, same thing, right ?

Re: I heat my home by mining crypto currencies

#190

Post by _Microft » Tue, Feb 23, 2021, 1:54 PM UTC

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #142

hectormalot wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Residential sized heat pumps can do '400-500%' efficiency (i.e. 4-5kWh of heat for every kWh of electricity), so electrical heating at 100% efficiency is indeed inefficient. If the calculations are really valuable it could still be worth it though. Also, what would you do in the summer?

Miniscule % of people have heat-pumps. In UK most people use either a gas boiler or a dumb electric heater. And you can't even install heatpump in an an apartment building without re-constructing half of it.

They are slowly becoming more common here in Germany. I'd say about half of the houses in the newly developed part of town have one and a few older ones are retrofitting them as well here.