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The road to electric is filled with tiny cars

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Re: The road to electric is filled with tiny cars

#151

Clive Sinclair was right.

Timing matters.

Whoever designed the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antikythera_mechanism was smart, but some of the things inside it only provided practical benefits 1800+ years later, so none of their children, grandchildren, great-great-great-grandchildren benefited from them.

Re: The road to electric is filled with tiny cars

#152

Given that many of these only have three wheels and to my knowledge regulation on “cars” only applies if the vehicle has four wheels- I wonder why these aren’t available in the USA at the same time.

The regulations on "cars" apply if they drive on most streets. We've regulated our way into being forced to buy $20,000+ vehicles weighing thousands of pounds, and somehow see this as normal and natural.

Go take a look at any graph showing road fatalities per million km from 1960 to the present day, and rethink your perspective regarding all that regulation ;-)

Re: The road to electric is filled with tiny cars

#153
post #119
post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only thing stopping this democratization would be crash-worthiness. While this is more true for Western markets currently, regulations will come to India as well. However many Indians ride in the 3-wheeled death-traps called auto-rickshaws so I don't know... I've personally been in one which almost rolled over when the driver made a sharp turn at (relatively) high speed.

> The only thing stopping this democratization would be crash-worthiness. There is no trouble making small crash-worthy vehicles if the standard vehicle is no more than a few hundred kilos and is limited to 30-50 km/h. On the other hand, the current trend for western vehicles has been to make vehicles that are more and more dangerous for their environment, but which are themselves well-protected. So there is a good a…

>banning larger cars could also produce good safety norms.

It's a classic tragedy of the commons situation. Individual safety means endangering others. You can't get rid of all the transporters and trucks from businesses, vans for families, etc., so people will continue to want that individual safety, meaning bigger cars.

Re: The road to electric is filled with tiny cars

#154

This is something I realized recently. I am in India and the number of small manufacturers who are making electric people movers is very high. These are not high speed vehicles, they are below 40 KM/h speed as I see them, but the big shift is that hundreds of small companies around India are producing and maintaining small electric vehicles, mostly locally. The drivers charge them at home at night or during longer lu…

I don’t think I ever drove above 40kmh in an Indian city if I wasn’t off the expressway or whatever they are called in India. It’s the perfect solution for everyday life. Hopefully they become pervasive and help reduce air pollution dramatically.

Where I live 50km/h is the speed limit in urban areas. In city centers it id often 40 or 30.

The effects of air pollution has just begun to dawn I reckon - it is indeed a welcome solution.

Also the frickin' grid is there! Transporting oil and refined gasoline around the world seems like a crazy proposition in comparison.

Re: The road to electric is filled with tiny cars

#155
post #71

I have a Renault Twizy. It's a tiny 2-seater car (one behind the other). It's so tiny that the battery is only 6kWh and thus you can only go for about 80km before needing a charge (which lasts 2h30). But I love it in fact. In my european city it's the best car to go around because you can park anywhere, it costs nothing to operate, and it's so much fun and quiet. Sadly it didn't take on, but other cars are starting t…

Sadly 2 seater vehicles won't ever happen en mass. There's a lot of people with families who will need at least 3 seats.

Re: The road to electric is filled with tiny cars

#156
post #139
post #71

I have a Renault Twizy. It's a tiny 2-seater car (one behind the other). It's so tiny that the battery is only 6kWh and thus you can only go for about 80km before needing a charge (which lasts 2h30). But I love it in fact. In my european city it's the best car to go around because you can park anywhere, it costs nothing to operate, and it's so much fun and quiet. Sadly it didn't take on, but other cars are starting t…

What's the point of "cars" that can't do at least 50mph/80kmh? You can't really use them in the city, because you get stuck in traffic just like everybody else. Here, a bicycle or a scooter / moped is the way to go - or public transport. You can't really use them on city speedways or circular roads, because you are too slow and hold everyone else up. And you can't use the cycle paths either. And motorways - just forg…

> But if everyone had one, then stuck in traffic again.

Not if the lanes, or the rules for existing lanes, change somewhat.

I love these small cars and see them all around where I live, some even smaller than the modern tuk tuks that we get from China.

I have looked online at some cool designs I've seen and most are in the $1000-$1500 range new. That sure beats a 2000+ lbs hunk of metal that is so prohibitively expensive to buy, maintain, refuel, and store that only 1/3 of Americans actually own a car, while living in the land of highways and sprawl.

Re: The road to electric is filled with tiny cars

#157

Norway was the first country where more than half of all new registered vehicles were electric in 2020. And if you look at the data, Norwegians pick EVs that look and drive like normal cars. https://www.statista.com/statistics/696530/ranking-of-electr... It's not like you can't buy the weird ones too. It's just that people don't seem to want to buy them. Maybe culture plays some role there, but I believe that there a…

It is true that the design of ICE vehicles is not arbitrary, but depends on weight/power/size/speed tradeoffs. However, there's no reason that these tradeoffs should be the same for EVs. Drivers in city traffic can't go fast, but they like to accelerate quickly. This means a big engine, which means a big car, which means more weight so the engine has to be even bigger to keep the car accelerating 0-30 quickly. For EV…

I for one believe that the weight/power/size/speed tradeoffs have a lot more to do with:

- the need to have place for kids with safety seats in the back

- the need to have place for a stroller/a snowboard/a few suitcases/something else in the trunk

- the need to use the car to travel at highway speeds and dynamics at least occasionally.

I don't see any of this being changed by having an EV. Even as a second car. Especially the last point.

Re: The road to electric is filled with tiny cars

#158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am a software engineer and I am not crazy enough to build a minimal ICE vehicle. But after spending decent teenage and college years in battery and small motors, I am actually confident enough to build a 3 people mover, slow and all, but it will go. There really is an order of magnitude difference in the complexity. The typical ICE already has electric batteries and motors. But the EV does not have the ICE parts. N…

Yet every yokel with a garage, builds an ICE car for fun. Not even college educated. Some disconnect here?

Yeah, I don't really get the ICE is super complex thing. Simple ICE engines are...simple. Parts are easy to get and they are easy to work on. And, if you don't care about the environment, a 2-cycle engine is even simpler.

Re: The road to electric is filled with tiny cars

#159
I wonder if the real progress will be in traffic management. A huge amount of waste comes from the legacy lights and stops. Whenever your alone on a long strip in sync with green lights, you can just coast and reach your destination in a few minutes at 35mph. With small ~smart or even SDV you may be able to rethink the principles. Higher density, higher liquidity..

Re: The road to electric is filled with tiny cars

#160
post #71

I have a Renault Twizy. It's a tiny 2-seater car (one behind the other). It's so tiny that the battery is only 6kWh and thus you can only go for about 80km before needing a charge (which lasts 2h30). But I love it in fact. In my european city it's the best car to go around because you can park anywhere, it costs nothing to operate, and it's so much fun and quiet. Sadly it didn't take on, but other cars are starting t…

Sadly 2 seater vehicles won't ever happen en mass. There's a lot of people with families who will need at least 3 seats.

So what? The vast majority of vehicle trips have only one driver, 2 seater or 1 seater vehicles need not cater to families. And you're already incorrect, there are already millions of 2 seater vehicles, be it pickups, trucks, sports cars, or extremely compact cars.
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