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Falling sperm counts, declining egg quality, and endocrine disruptors

nytimes.com

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Re: Falling sperm counts, declining egg quality, and endocrine disruptors

#191

Post by gameswithgo »

DoreenMichele wrote: post #176
eyko wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They are typically made to improve profit in some fashion, not to improve human health. The main goals of GMOs are to increase yield and protect against disease / pests, which is practically the same goal we've had for thousands of years of crop domestication. Take for instance wild pre-domesticated maize vs present day non-GMO maize[1] and you'll see what "natural" crop selection does. Not only do we select for st…

we've been eating GMOs for millenia. That's a little like saying "There's zero difference between traditional animal husbandry and cloning." Sorry, I think there is a meaningful distinction between traditional human intervention in plant varieties and the more recent intervention called GMO. Most of the world seems to agree that there is a distinction, enough so that we invented new language for what it is we are doi…

genes get arbitrarily modified by evolution, breeding, or manual intervention. could a gmo food cause a problem? sure, so could a food whose genes were modified by breeding or accident of nature

Re: Falling sperm counts, declining egg quality, and endocrine disruptors

#192

Post by eightails »

DoreenMichele wrote: post #185
eightails wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree, but in that case why bother? In replying with such a distinction, the assumption is that you're actually responding directly to the op, not just quoting truisms.

They asked. I felt it was a distinction worth making. You aren't the OP. Why do you care so much? Why do you feel compelled to engage with the words on the screen of some internet stranger who likely has a different cultural background from you and does things for reasons different from yours?

> Why do you feel compelled to engage with the words on the screen of some internet stranger who likely has a different cultural background from you and does things for reasons different from yours?

Because I like discussing things with other people, especially people who might come from different cultural backgrounds, do things differently or otherwise hold different views from me. It's often interesting and educational, helping us both to get different perspectives on things.

I won't pose the obvious reversal. Given this conversation is certainly not interesting or educational, I think it's probably best if we stop here.

Re: Falling sperm counts, declining egg quality, and endocrine disruptors

#193

Post by nemo44x »

We see similar things happening with digestive diseases between the West and Asia. Diverticulitis is pretty rare in Asia (and Africa for that matter) and fairly common in the West. But what’s interesting is that it is just as common for Asians that move to the West after about 12 years or so which rules out genetics. Additionally we are seeing it occur in younger and younger people. This was once a disease for ages 60+ and now it’s not uncommon to find it in people in their 40’s and 30’s and occasionally their 20’s now!

It’s assumed the types of foods more common in a Western diet are the cause of this but there isn’t concrete proof. It’s a strong hypothesis though.

It’s thought the main cause is foliage ingestion, or lack of. People in Asia and Africa eat a lot more plants which are high in fiber.

So I don’t think it’s just obesity and being overweight that are the issue but how we get obese and overweight and I believe that all this, from infertility to early onset of digestive diseases are related in large part to our diets.

Re: Falling sperm counts, declining egg quality, and endocrine disruptors

#194

Post by mekkkkkk »

cblconfederate wrote: post #99

And what are the behavioral effects of such large physiological changes en masse? Surely neurochemical changes will manifest everywhere, from mental health to politics

Shorter attention spans, more lethargy, lower overall intelligence. You could point at a number of cultural and political developments over the last decades and argue that these neurochemical changes could be a contributing factor. However, it must be pretty much impossible to know for sure. The supposed effects are too intangible and the compounds are too pervasive. We can only speculate.

Re: Falling sperm counts, declining egg quality, and endocrine disruptors

#195

Post by DoreenMichele »

creata wrote: post #189
DoreenMichele wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Almost 95 percent of the soybeans grown in the U.S. are genetically modified. https://www.thedailymeal.com/travel/8-most-genetically-modif... In 2007, over half the world’s soybean crop was genetically modified; a higher percentage than any other crop. https://worldofgenetics.weebly.com/genetically-modified-soyb... Asians are probably eating less GMO soy (than Americans) and we don't really know what those genetic mo…

> Asians are probably eating less GMO soy I may be out of the loop here, but why do you say that? Are Asians particularly more GMO-averse than Americans?

I say that based on the two data points I quoted with sources. Presumably 'more than half' is less than 95 percent in most cases.

Re: Falling sperm counts, declining egg quality, and endocrine disruptors

#196

Post by riffraff »

gremlinsinc wrote: post #161
jonplackett wrote: post #47

As someone who has had to do IVF for our child and go through the challenge of figuring our what to do to try and improve sperm quality, I can tell you once you start looking into it, basically everything about modern life is bad for sperm. Heat, radiation, plastic, micro plastics, soya, tap water, Teflon, antibacterial soap, underpants, western diet. It’s a perfect storm. If you’re going though it though I offer a r…

We had to use donor sperm, and even then we had 8 miscarriages and 8 rounds of ivf. Every time it was at 5 weeks and 5 days. Doctor finally figured out Wife had an autoimmune disorder (presumed) and 10 mg of prednisone during first trimester solved it, for the next 2 out of 3 ivf cycles to get our 2 little boys. She had cancer cells though so had to have a full hysterectomy so we're likely done unless we adopt now...…

I have nothing to add to this topic, but I just want to send you a virtual hug, we had one miscarriage and it was bad, I can't even imagine how you'd feel after 8.

Re: Falling sperm counts, declining egg quality, and endocrine disruptors

#197

Post by _0w8t »

petertodd wrote: post #75
WA wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Soy isn't that easy: https://www.health.harvard.edu/newsletter_article/Medical-me... There was one study with 99 participants. A counter argument is Asia, where men eat a lot more soy and don't have reduced sperm count.

They've also eaten soy for much longer than others, literally thousands of years(1) at this point. That's more than long enough to evolve countermeasures if it did have an effect. They also eat soy differently, mainly in products which are fermented. 1) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soybean#History

One does not need 1000 years to evolve. One generation where soy intolerance leads to death through famine/malnutrition is enough. That is why cultural differences are so important to take into account.

Re: Falling sperm counts, declining egg quality, and endocrine disruptors

#198

Post by DoreenMichele »

eightails wrote: post #192
DoreenMichele wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They asked. I felt it was a distinction worth making. You aren't the OP. Why do you care so much? Why do you feel compelled to engage with the words on the screen of some internet stranger who likely has a different cultural background from you and does things for reasons different from yours?

> Why do you feel compelled to engage with the words on the screen of some internet stranger who likely has a different cultural background from you and does things for reasons different from yours? Because I like discussing things with other people, especially people who might come from different cultural backgrounds, do things differently or otherwise hold different views from me. It's often interesting and educati…

You are replying to the "obvious reversal." So, yeah, we don't need to turn it around a second time. It's already beyond silly.
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