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Falling sperm counts, declining egg quality, and endocrine disruptors

nytimes.com

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Re: Falling sperm counts, declining egg quality, and endocrine disruptors

#131

Post by dalbasal »

jonplackett wrote: post #116
ilyaeck wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's so wrong with a biscuit?

Like I said, I was going for the nuclear option and biscuits have sugar in. Sugar makes you fat. Fat belly means less testosterone. This is part of the anti-western diet thing.

Also.. it's probably made of whichever processed grain/seed is worst and dosed with additives: preservatives, flavour, colour, texture. If something in food is bad for whatever reason, it's probably in the biscuit.

I find it quite poetic that modern man needs to go live by a lake, foraging naked for a few months to regain our reproductive viability.

Re: Falling sperm counts, declining egg quality, and endocrine disruptors

#132

Post by refurb »

DoingIsLearning wrote: post #17
refurb wrote: post #7

As a scientist I hate articles like this. Apparently putting the word “may” in the title allows one to pontificate wildly about what might be the cause of falling sperm rates and other reproductive trends. Little to no comments about other possible causes, no data that shows a relationship between “endocrine disruptors” and sperm counts, no comments about levels of these chemicals in the population or what levels the…

The blanket statement of 'endocrine disruptors' takes away clarity. They mainly refer to Bisphenol and Pthalates which are present in the majority of Plastics and cleaning products/cosmetics. These compounds are chemically too similar to estrogen and are processed by your body in pretty much the same way as the female hormone. Evidence on the health effects of Bisphenol and Pthalates: - Influence in hormone dependent…

Not going to lie but that 2nd reference is terrible. It’s a meta-analysis and a bunch of the odds ratios overlap with 1 (no effect).

I’m not saying endocrine disruptors are harmless, but multiple things need to be proven before you can make any conclusions:

1. A specific endocrine disruptor has a negative biological effect.

2. That specific disruptor is found in common items.

3. That specific disruptor can be leeched out of that item through normal use.

4. The amount leeched out actually gets into the body.

5. The amount that gets into the body is at a high enough level to cause a toxic effect.

I see cell or animal data for #1, #2, but I don’t see data for #3,4,5.

Re: Falling sperm counts, declining egg quality, and endocrine disruptors

#133

Post by [deleted] »

WA wrote: post #59
jonplackett wrote: post #47

As someone who has had to do IVF for our child and go through the challenge of figuring our what to do to try and improve sperm quality, I can tell you once you start looking into it, basically everything about modern life is bad for sperm. Heat, radiation, plastic, micro plastics, soya, tap water, Teflon, antibacterial soap, underpants, western diet. It’s a perfect storm. If you’re going though it though I offer a r…

Soy isn't that easy: https://www.health.harvard.edu/newsletter_article/Medical-me... There was one study with 99 participants. A counter argument is Asia, where men eat a lot more soy and don't have reduced sperm count.

[deleted]

Re: Falling sperm counts, declining egg quality, and endocrine disruptors

#134

Post by dragonwriter »

bpodgursky wrote: post #35

Would it be... unreasonable... to point out that the fall in sperm quality, egg quality, and overall hormonal disruption is happening concurrent with a blurring of overall gender identification, predominantly in the youngest generation? Identification as trans or other non-binary status is incredibly high among the gen-z cohort. Might be unrelated social upheaval, but would anyone really be surprised if we weren't ac…

> Identification as trans or other non-binary status is incredibly high among the gen-z cohort.

The highest study estimate I've seen is 3%, almost all others are between 0.7% and 1%, with even boomers around 0.5%. (For Gen-Z kids, parental belief that children are trans or have non-binary identity is many times higher, though, but that's clearly more about social priming than “hormonal poisoning”.)

> Might be unrelated social upheaval,

To the extent there is an increase at all, it's probably increased awareness of the concept providing a framework to fit into than any “hormonal poisoning”.

Re: Falling sperm counts, declining egg quality, and endocrine disruptors

#136

Post by DoreenMichele »

bpodgursky wrote: post #35

Would it be... unreasonable... to point out that the fall in sperm quality, egg quality, and overall hormonal disruption is happening concurrent with a blurring of overall gender identification, predominantly in the youngest generation? Identification as trans or other non-binary status is incredibly high among the gen-z cohort. Might be unrelated social upheaval, but would anyone really be surprised if we weren't ac…

It's not unreasonable to speculate that it may be one factor. It is unreasonable to implicitly assert that it's the only factor and the clear singular cause.

Re: Falling sperm counts, declining egg quality, and endocrine disruptors

#137

Post by nxpnsv »

WA wrote: post #59
jonplackett wrote: post #47

As someone who has had to do IVF for our child and go through the challenge of figuring our what to do to try and improve sperm quality, I can tell you once you start looking into it, basically everything about modern life is bad for sperm. Heat, radiation, plastic, micro plastics, soya, tap water, Teflon, antibacterial soap, underpants, western diet. It’s a perfect storm. If you’re going though it though I offer a r…

Soy isn't that easy: https://www.health.harvard.edu/newsletter_article/Medical-me... There was one study with 99 participants. A counter argument is Asia, where men eat a lot more soy and don't have reduced sperm count.

It's interesting to look at such studies, here is an example:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2721724/figure/...

So if you have low BMI you improve sperm concentration if you eat soy 2-8 times a week? Less or more than that is worse? Data is not convincing, and it is easy to find studies which don't agree.

Re: Falling sperm counts, declining egg quality, and endocrine disruptors

#138

Post by numpad0 »

MattGaiser wrote: post #43
m_eiman wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are lists available, e.g. https://edlists.org/ When the EU was debating the REACH regulations there was a big push to move to a "don't sell or produce it until you can prove it's safe" stance, but AFAIK it was significantly watered down before an agreement was reached. https://ec.europa.eu/environment/chemicals/reach/reach_en.ht... Then there's the problem of "chemical cocktails", where combinations of chemical…

Is there a reason we can't just dump tons of mice into different sets and combos of chemicals and see what happens?

It’s astounding how automated and reproducible software testing is.

Re: Falling sperm counts, declining egg quality, and endocrine disruptors

#139

Post by fhsm »

inter_netuser wrote: post #41
jimbob45 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah this is my issue. I have to drink bottled water for water quality reasons. How am I supposed to avoid plastic there?

Drink Voss? and re-fillVOSS bottles with distilled water? You can get distilled water delivered in very large glass jugs (4 gallons i think?)

Some thought that distilled water may not be desirable:

https://www.who.int/water_sanitation_health/dwq/nutrientscha...

Re: Falling sperm counts, declining egg quality, and endocrine disruptors

#140

Post by Bombthecat »

jonplackett wrote: post #47

As someone who has had to do IVF for our child and go through the challenge of figuring our what to do to try and improve sperm quality, I can tell you once you start looking into it, basically everything about modern life is bad for sperm. Heat, radiation, plastic, micro plastics, soya, tap water, Teflon, antibacterial soap, underpants, western diet. It’s a perfect storm. If you’re going though it though I offer a r…

You... avoided all that? How?

You didn't wear underpants or what?

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