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"My iOS app is being pirated. Over 90% haven't paid for it. What can I do?"

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Re: "My iOS app is being pirated. Over 90% haven't paid for it. What can I do?"

#41

Post by trevelyan »

patio11 wrote: post #30
trevelyan wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Piracy might not bother him again... until his pirated downloads drop by 98% and paid downloads drop by 50%. And when he complains about this on Hacker News, patio11 tells him to spend more time blogging and working on SEO. ;)

My advice would have the desirable property of actually working.

I've personally benefited from your shared insights into SEO here, but your reply above is glib and dismissive of a business strategy that works for a lot of people (including me). It emphasizes actively focusing on SEO and pursuing visibility in search engines instead of passively optimizing for word-of-mouth and visibility in channels like the App store.

So no... I disagree that it would work. I think rkalla below offers some great advice. To which I'd add that if I were this guy, I'd give a basic version of the app away for free to boost legit downloads through the App store, brand the hell out of it (URL on load page), charge other app websites to be featured as the site of the day, and use various methods ("visit our website for a code to unlock extra content") to get user emails and build a distribution channel that he can leverage in the future. This requires a bit of work, but much less (I think) than is required by the non-freemium approach, and has the advantage of avoiding a focus on Google as one's key distribution channel.

Re: "My iOS app is being pirated. Over 90% haven't paid for it. What can I do?"

#42

Post by adolph »

ansy wrote: post #16
crag wrote: post #8

How are they pirating it.. unless they jail-break their phone? I don't do iphone apps, but I was under the impression Apple controlled the distribution?

I'm not sure if it works anymore. But with the App Store you can download on anyone's device after you pay for it once. For example, I buy Angry Birds, and then I log in on your phone and install Angry Birds on it as a free update. Then I log out of your phone, and Angry Birds is still installed. I didn't even know it was possible and I did iOS development. Then I saw someone do it and had a WTF moment. He just said…

The trick is that a particular iPhone can't run around to different people's computers slurping the apps they bought on different iTunes accounts. It can only sync with one computer/iTunes account.

For example, my spouse and I could use the same purchased apps (if we used the same stuff) since we share a single iTunes account and library. I could not sync with my next door neighbor and use all their apps at the same time as I use my own.

Re: "My iOS app is being pirated. Over 90% haven't paid for it. What can I do?"

#43

Post by aneth »

patio11 wrote: post #27

Let me condense the conversation for you: Blah blah blah, free marketing, blah blah blah, wouldn't have bought it anyway, blah blah blah, DRM never works. Then you move your code to the server and this never bothers you again. This defeats piracy so well it works in China .

I agree. Piracy is the best thing that ever happened to Microsoft. If DRM worked, China - unable to afford Windows- would be a massive base of innovation for Linux desktops, and ultimately undermine Microsoft. If copyright were strongly enforced, nobody there would know what Louis Vitton is - instead it is now home to their most profitable store.

Piracy is great marketing. Better even than free. You have distribution of free accelerated by the impression of value. The best reaction to piracy is to leverage the demand and user base.

Re: "My iOS app is being pirated. Over 90% haven't paid for it. What can I do?"

#44

Post by asdkfj9876 »

patio11 wrote: post #27

Let me condense the conversation for you: Blah blah blah, free marketing, blah blah blah, wouldn't have bought it anyway, blah blah blah, DRM never works. Then you move your code to the server and this never bothers you again. This defeats piracy so well it works in China .

when did you turn into such a know-it-all patio? All I see from you is arrogant one liners for the last few months.

It's been interesting seeing how your (modest) success has turned you into an asshole - shame really.

Re: "My iOS app is being pirated. Over 90% haven't paid for it. What can I do?"

#45

Post by Goladus »

Vivtek wrote: post #35
Goladus wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The truth is that X is probably somewhere in between. X depends a lot on the particular piece of software, the target market, and the context in which it's available. There won't ever be any generalized data. One interesting test would be to offer an app for a ridiculously low price, like $0.01 and see how many people don't bother to pay even that.

A dollar is a ridiculously low price, really. (Not that you're wrong.)

I would say that depends on the App. And of course, my point is that from the point of a consumer $1 is still enough to be perceived as being worth something (a snack or a bottled drink, perhaps).

Re: "My iOS app is being pirated. Over 90% haven't paid for it. What can I do?"

#46

Post by mbateman »

nupark2 wrote: post #32
patio11 wrote: post #27

Let me condense the conversation for you: Blah blah blah, free marketing, blah blah blah, wouldn't have bought it anyway, blah blah blah, DRM never works. Then you move your code to the server and this never bothers you again. This defeats piracy so well it works in China .

This sounds more like a narrative that supports your entrenched position, personal worldview, and target audience, rather than an actual useful summary of the many lucid arguments put forward in the original link.

I thought it was a useful summary. The arguments in the original link are by-now-familiar platitudes, even if they are lucid.

Re: "My iOS app is being pirated. Over 90% haven't paid for it. What can I do?"

#47

Post by yoda_sl »

nupark2 wrote: post #34
yoda_sl wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's always the same game of cat & mouse with pirates. Most pirates on iOS are simply using one of the free tool and don't go far beyond that. I have implemented a technique for detecting pirated app and used it now in many apps: since then the piracy rate went down to zero which convinced that most pirates on iOS are simply using a tool and don't know what to do if the app they try to crack fail. I am sure that a tr…

> If anyone is interested to learn what can be done, send me an email. Are you checking that the Mach-O binary is encrypted? I'm not aware of that being worked around by any of the automated tools (and it an approach that is widely discussed).

That is one of the approach but I combine it with a few other useful ones.

Re: "My iOS app is being pirated. Over 90% haven't paid for it. What can I do?"

#48

Post by ansy »

adolph wrote: post #42
ansy wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure if it works anymore. But with the App Store you can download on anyone's device after you pay for it once. For example, I buy Angry Birds, and then I log in on your phone and install Angry Birds on it as a free update. Then I log out of your phone, and Angry Birds is still installed. I didn't even know it was possible and I did iOS development. Then I saw someone do it and had a WTF moment. He just said…

The trick is that a particular iPhone can't run around to different people's computers slurping the apps they bought on different iTunes accounts. It can only sync with one computer/iTunes account. For example, my spouse and I could use the same purchased apps (if we used the same stuff) since we share a single iTunes account and library. I could not sync with my next door neighbor and use all their apps at the same…

I think we're describing different things. You're talking about syncing apps with a computer. Sharing libraries between spouses and stuff like that.

I'm talking about this set of steps (on an iPhone/iPad):

1) Go to Settings App

2) Log out of iTunes

3) Log in as Person B

4) Launch App Store

5) Download an app that Person B previously bought. This is a free update.

6) Go to Settings

7) Sign out of Person B's iTunes account

8) Log back in as myself

9) Voila! Launch pirated app which is still on my device without having to jailbreak my phone.

This of course doesn't allow me to update the app because it requires I login as the other person. And yeah, I probably can't sync this rogue app to my computer. But for games and most apps, this is enough. If an app is worth pirating it's probably good enough without the updates. And I turn off app sync because it's annoying. If I really lost my apps I'd just reinstall the ones that mattered.

NB: I don't do this myself. I'm sure if there was a more 'secure' way without being horrible Apple would have done it. Getting apps onto a device for development was/is horrific.

Re: "My iOS app is being pirated. Over 90% haven't paid for it. What can I do?"

#49

Post by mattgreenrocks »

patio11 wrote: post #27

Let me condense the conversation for you: Blah blah blah, free marketing, blah blah blah, wouldn't have bought it anyway, blah blah blah, DRM never works. Then you move your code to the server and this never bothers you again. This defeats piracy so well it works in China .

Is there a way to associate a purchase made on the Android/iOS app store with an account on a server?

Re: "My iOS app is being pirated. Over 90% haven't paid for it. What can I do?"

#50

Post by dendory »

Wait, 90% of users pirating it? I just don't buy it. How many iPhone users jailbreak their phones? 5%? less probably? So those few users are 90% of your user base? These numbers just don't seem right. I would bet the real reason he saw a peak of traffic is something else. He bases his conclusions on how many people click a button, which presumably loads a URL on his server. It could be something as stupid as Google having found the hidden url somehow and indexed it.
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