> Nominal wages are sticky, for a complex mix of sociological reasons, and so employers do not always respond to lower demand with lower wages for workers. Instead they lay some people off, and that can lead to a recession. > The second thing to know is that well-functioning central banks can offset such demand shocks to a considerable degree — or even prevent them from arising in the first place. The bank can engage…
Four Basic Truths of Macroeconomics
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Re: Four Basic Truths of Macroeconomics
#22> Nominal wages are sticky, for a complex mix of sociological reasons, and so employers do not always respond to lower demand with lower wages for workers. Instead they lay some people off, and that can lead to a recession. > The second thing to know is that well-functioning central banks can offset such demand shocks to a considerable degree — or even prevent them from arising in the first place. The bank can engage…
I'm just going to call you a conspiracy theorist because it's probably not worth arguing with you, and "the amount of energy needed to refute bullshit is an order of magnitude larger than to produce it." If what you want to say is that you think the government is run by a shadowy cabal of elites whose main purpose is to impoverish the common man, then just say that.
I’m not sure why I would need to go that far afield when I can just deal with the actual words spoken by actual economists where they literally say this with slighty obscurant language. This isn’t a “shadowy cabal,” its mainstream media and economics here.
If the actual intent of economic policy is so threatening to your worldview that you need to poison the well by invoking shadowy conspiracies, perhaps you should re-evaluate your own perspective on the issue.
> I'm just going to call you a conspiracy theorist because it's probably not worth arguing with you, and "the amount of energy needed to refute bullshit is an order of magnitude larger than to produce it."
Yeah it would probably require an infinite amount of energy to refute my assertions, since they are actually true. And I think we are beyond considering the existence of the central bank to be a “conspiracy theory”, it’s kind of established.
Re: Four Basic Truths of Macroeconomics
#23Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm just going to call you a conspiracy theorist because it's probably not worth arguing with you, and "the amount of energy needed to refute bullshit is an order of magnitude larger than to produce it." If what you want to say is that you think the government is run by a shadowy cabal of elites whose main purpose is to impoverish the common man, then just say that.
> If what you want to say is that you think the government is run by a shadowy cabal of elites whose main purpose is to impoverish the common man, then just say that. I’m not sure why I would need to go that far afield when I can just deal with the actual words spoken by actual economists where they literally say this with slighty obscurant language. This isn’t a “shadowy cabal,” its mainstream media and economics he…
If you think your assertions are "actually true" then back them up.
edit: and let's be clear about who has poisoned the well here. You poisoned the well. You decided to go on HN and insinuate that governments are purposefully devaluing working class people's salaries to make their lives worse. An assertion that you provided with no evidence. And you expect that you can just post stuff like that without getting called out! Ridiculous.
Re: Four Basic Truths of Macroeconomics
#24Re: Four Basic Truths of Macroeconomics
#25The only truth: central banking facilitates theft of savings through debasement of the currency. This is the reason the founding fathers fought to keep central banking out of the US.
Yeah, it doesn't, though. Inflation only matters from the time you receive your paycheck to the time you invest it in productive assets or buy the necessities of life. After that it sets the benchmark rate of return for your investments. If your salary fails to track inflation that's between you and your boss who's giving you a pay cut year over year, or between you and congress if you're under the minimum wage umbre…
Re: Four Basic Truths of Macroeconomics
#26The only truth: central banking facilitates theft of savings through debasement of the currency. This is the reason the founding fathers fought to keep central banking out of the US.
Yeah, it doesn't, though. Inflation only matters from the time you receive your paycheck to the time you invest it in productive assets or buy the necessities of life. After that it sets the benchmark rate of return for your investments. If your salary fails to track inflation that's between you and your boss who's giving you a pay cut year over year, or between you and congress if you're under the minimum wage umbre…
It means the people who save by depositing cash in the bank lose value over time, causing them to purchase investments out of necessity (rather than purchasing them because they believe its a good investment). This bids up the price of investments relative to their return, which effectively reduces returns to a level commensurate with the artificially low interest rates.
It also negatively impacts anyone who is long cash for any reason (perhaps their business requires them to retain a certain amount) and anyone who relies on fixed payments denominated in dollars (retirees, pensioners, disabled persons, those on public assistance, etc.).
> After that it sets the benchmark rate of return for your investments.
Those are nominal returns, not real returns. Inflation generates no real returns.
> If your salary fails to track inflation that's between you and your boss who's giving you a pay cut year over year
Nice rhetorical judo, to frame the central bank’s actions as normal and the lack of an increase as a decrease.
> or between you and congress if you're under the minimum wage umbrella.
Alas, if congress could lower the minimum wage without political fallout, economists might suggest they do that instead of inflating the money supply.
> Currency only has value while its changing hands and inflation is an incentive to change hands. If you'd invested in anything at all 100 years ago you'd have just as much value as you do today. If you insisted in sticking a square peg in a round hole and hid your cash in your mattress the whole time, inflation did its job and took that value from you.
This is why time preference should be taught in school.
Re: Four Basic Truths of Macroeconomics
#27Earlier quoted context omitted.
> If what you want to say is that you think the government is run by a shadowy cabal of elites whose main purpose is to impoverish the common man, then just say that. I’m not sure why I would need to go that far afield when I can just deal with the actual words spoken by actual economists where they literally say this with slighty obscurant language. This isn’t a “shadowy cabal,” its mainstream media and economics he…
ok let me be more polite: source??? If you think your assertions are "actually true" then back them up. edit: and let's be clear about who has poisoned the well here. You poisoned the well. You decided to go on HN and insinuate that governments are purposefully devaluing working class people's salaries to make their lives worse. An assertion that you provided with no evidence. And you expect that you can just post st…
Re: Four Basic Truths of Macroeconomics
#28Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yeah, it doesn't, though. Inflation only matters from the time you receive your paycheck to the time you invest it in productive assets or buy the necessities of life. After that it sets the benchmark rate of return for your investments. If your salary fails to track inflation that's between you and your boss who's giving you a pay cut year over year, or between you and congress if you're under the minimum wage umbre…
> Inflation only matters from the time you receive your paycheck to the time you invest it in productive assets or buy the necessities of life. It means the people who save by depositing cash in the bank lose value over time, causing them to purchase investments out of necessity (rather than purchasing them because they believe its a good investment). This bids up the price of investments relative to their return, wh…
Ah you get it. That's the idea. Buy gold if you want, buy real estate, buy annuities, buy fixed incomes, I don't care, but money is an intermediary - not a long-term store of value. If you treat it as one you'll have a bad time. Just like if you treated your car as a boat. It'll work for a bit, then it'll sink. Because it's the wrong tool for the job.
> Those are nominal returns, not real returns. Inflation generates no real returns.
Did I say inflation generated returns? No, I said it sets the benchmark rate of return for your investments. If your investments fail to exceed inflation they're not the right choice. That's your duty in a capitalist society - to pick winners by investment.
> Nice rhetorical judo, to frame the central bank’s actions as normal and the lack of an increase as a decrease.
They're paying you less value so it's a decrease. You're tripping yourself up focusing on units instead of what they represent. After all, inflation has many positives, too.
> Alas, if congress could lower the minimum wage without political fallout, economists might suggest they do that instead of inflating the money supply.
That's between you and congress, not between you and Janet Yellen.
> This is why time preference should be taught in school.
I'd argue this conversation is why ECON 101 should be mandatory, so folks have the tools they need to thrive in modern society instead of, well, tilting at windmills.
Re: Four Basic Truths of Macroeconomics
#29"I also think measures of price inflation are almost useless over the long run, because a person today consumes a very different bundle of goods than one in, say, 1950." I agree with this wholeheartedly. How do we put a value on the fact that, for the cost of no more than a day's labor, most in the US can have a handheld device with access to nearly the sum total of the world's knowledge and entertainment? No one, at…
True, but a smartphone has become a component of participation in society. No one buys landline telephones anymore, but they were a part of a typical family budget in the 50s.
Re: Four Basic Truths of Macroeconomics
#30I get a "please subscribe" pop-up and can't get rid of it without fiddling with the CSS editor. Anyhow... Summary of Truisms: 1) During recessions, employers tend to lay off rather than reduce wages 2) Central bank stimulus helps recessions 3) Too much stimulus causes run-away inflation 4) Non-monetary problems like oil shocks and pandemics can cause recessions 5) Increasing population helps economies. ("Hump to de-s…
Regarding point 5: increasing population via reproduction adds workers in 16-18 years. Immigration adds workers immediately. Additionally, immigration increases both labor supply (obviously) but also labor demand (more consumption, because immigrants buy stuff and services just like anyone else) and as a result wages are flat even when a lot of immigrants join the economy in a short amount of time. "This has been tes…
The problem with all of these studies is that they only apply to the specific circumstances of the study which will probably never happen again anywhere.
What happens if the immigrants send more of the money they make back to their home countries? What happens if the minimum wage is lower, or the immigrants have a higher skill level, so that the potential downside for wages is larger? What if the unemployment rate or labor demand is different, affecting the number of new workers that displace existing workers? What happens if immigrants' wages are taxed at a higher rate and the money goes to cronies and corporate welfare instead of being recirculated in the economy?
Measuring what happened at a different time in a different place doesn't really tell you much.