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Ethereum Isn't Fun Anymore

timdaub.github.io

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Re: Ethereum Isn't Fun Anymore

#561

Post by Karunamon »

ccortes wrote: post #509
Karunamon wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I call maximum shenanigans on "cheaper" unless you're sending large amounts of money. Bitcoin: ~$25 Ethereum (and all tokens): ~$17 For comparison, to burn that much in fees on Paypal (2.5% + 30c), I'd need to send around 10K. Crypto is currently pointless for anything other than big transactions, and the unpredictability of the transaction fees, let alone the coin's value, is a big problem.

There's more than just bitcoin and ethereum

Not that have any kind of mainstream usage.

Re: Ethereum Isn't Fun Anymore

#562

Post by louwrentius »

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #175
louwrentius wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you point to a legitimate problem that “blockchain” can solve, which can’t be solved with existing tools? I think every smart person working on any kind of blockchain-related tech is seriously wasting their talent and life.

Can you point to a legitimate problem that "whatsapp" solved that could not be solved with existing tools? Between SMS, MMS, 'normal' calls and Skype, whatsapp added nothing technically new to the world.

Whatsapp was cross platform and free.

Re: Ethereum Isn't Fun Anymore

#563

Post by wallacoloo »

Article summarizes to:

"high gas fees are ruining ethereum for me. Other people need to quit using it for things that I personally don't get value from, to free up block space. Or the devs need to scale capacity. I'm a dev, but I don't like contributing to projects which have grown as large as ethereum, or I don't want to do that work. Somebody else please do it for me."

Sure, there's truth to it. And if the author reflected more before writing their rant, maybe they could have gotten to some interesting ideas worth discussing:

- How do you design a base layer which is general enough to do all the things author enjoys doing with Ethereum? - How do you make this base layer capable of scaling as more people want to use it?

These are the existential questions that blockchains like Ethereum have been facing for years. Ethereum has some paths forward: rollups and sharding, and there's a lot of active work on both of these right now. Maybe there's room for useful discussion around why these are taking relatively long to ship, and how can we ship them faster or avoid hitting these same limitations in the future?

But I feel like these discussions are already happening, every day in this space and in a hundred different forums. There are hundreds of people all working to address the author's pain points across dozens of different projects. These things are being worked on. It just takes time. Nothing happens overnight.

Re: Ethereum Isn't Fun Anymore

#564

Post by louwrentius »

loceng wrote: post #164
louwrentius wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you point to a legitimate problem that “blockchain” can solve, which can’t be solved with existing tools? I think every smart person working on any kind of blockchain-related tech is seriously wasting their talent and life.

There may be existing tools that are foolproof that can provide an immutable ledger, I'm unsure if that's fully possible otherwise, however having all transactions and changes to said system being public would prevent things like nations printing money without reporting it accurately - helping to make sure everyone's playing a fair game; using such a ledger would have to be voluntary, with nations who are aligned wit…

You are trying to solve a problem that is a feature. Printing money is a feature to keep our societies afloat during dark times.

It is one of the tools to keep a currency stable.

Not to say that there aren't serious problems in the fin-tech world, but immutable ledgers and rigid currencies aren't going to solve those.

The key problem - and your post is yet another example - is that you can't replace trust with an immutable ledger.

https://www.schneier.com/essays/archives/2019/02/theres_no_g...

The real problem - in my view - is that people don't understand the foundations of a society anymore, how to live together.

Re: Ethereum Isn't Fun Anymore

#565

Post by treelovinhippie »

lazzlazzlazz wrote: post #375

The Hacker News community has long been anti-crypto, and as someone deeply involved in the space, these long threads of complaints and diatribes are difficult to handle. Everyone is missing so much context. Ethereum gas prices are astronomical because there's unprecedented demand to use the network: NFT art and collectibles are exploding (NBA TopShot, Foundation, SuperRare, Rarible, OpenSea, etc.) at the same time De…

If you joined the Ethereum community in 2014-2016, topics like DeFi and NFT were not in the discussions. These things are pure speculative bullshit imported wholesale from the established financial system.

The point of Ethereum was to build an open world computer, to decentralize power, to build collective intelligence, and to supersede the corrupt global financial system with non-speculative economic models that served the needs of humanity and the planet.

Re: Ethereum Isn't Fun Anymore

#566

Post by hutzlibu »

ativzzz wrote: post #530
bmh wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every account in the network is a chain of blocks, with each block signed by the private key of that account. So only the owner of the account can add a block to their chain. To send money from A to B, A will add a 'spend' block to her chain, and B will add a 'receive' block to his chain. If B is offline, he can claim that receive later. The speed comes from the fact that spends from A to B can be processed independe…

So it only works as long as people are willing to volunteer nodes right? For a stable business model, I assume some party will start hosting nodes and charging people to use it?

It seems like it, but still, I like that approach a lot.

Re: Ethereum Isn't Fun Anymore

#567

Post by pedalpete »

[The internet isn't fun anymore - 2014](https://www.puregeekery.net/2014/11/17/internet-isnt-fun-any...) [Computers aren't fun anymore - 2011](https://www.twingalaxies.com/showthread.php/132771-Why-compu...)

It seems much of Tim's arguments revolve around the expense of transactions. But what about building on Nano if the cost on etherium is too high? Or any other lower cost alternatives? I'll admit, I have no idea what the transaction cost on Polkadot is, but there are lots of other interesting projects.

I agree with Tim's disappointment that the cost has risen to the point where it is likely hindering experimentation, which is probably what the crypto space still requires, but if that is the problem, let's focus on that.

Re: Ethereum Isn't Fun Anymore

#568

Post by Retric »

Karunamon wrote: post #557
Retric wrote: post #523

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Coal power plants generate more value in the from of electricity than they lose value as waste heat. Otherwise they wouldn’t operate. But, clearly the creation of value is independent of something being wasted as you can have more or less efficient power plants that generate the same value using more or less fuel and thus more or less waste heat. Similarly, as I just pointed out different algorithms would use more or…

But that heat you speak of applies to any kind of long-running computation. Whether that be render farms, ML model training, distributed computing like BOINC, or anything else with similar properties. It seems to me that crypto is being unfairly singled out. Things that are digital have meaningful existence.

Increasing efficiency is a huge aspect of every other field in computing with companies literally spend 10’s of billions of dollars increasing efficiency of software and hardware every year.

It’s directly offensive to many people in the field that an inefficient first implementation is maintained because people’s investments in hardware are considered more valuable than anything else. Not latency, not transactions per second, not environmental costs, just maximize the value of their hardware investments.

Completely understandable, yet still horrific.

Re: Ethereum Isn't Fun Anymore

#569

Post by dfjklgj45985 »

csa wrote: post #537
lazzlazzlazz wrote: post #489

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have this discussion at least once a week. What would you build if you could deploy an uninterruptible, transparently verifiable, fully autonomous software application? I promise you that we can discuss many examples (any kind of marketplace or platform but with community governance and no rents, decentralized exchanges, global-by-default payments, highly interoperable and efficient financial infrastructure), but w…

I will be sure to relay this answer to my non-tech friends who ask about cryptocurrencies. I’m sure this answer will send them running to buy. /s All joking aside, for a conversation you say you have weekly, this is a really lame answer due to the abstractness of it. My guess is the reason you don’t give concrete answers is because either tech already exists for that use case or non-crypto tech could be easily develo…

GP is incredibly "concrete":

>...any kind of marketplace or platform but with community governance and no rents, decentralized exchanges, global-by-default payments, highly interoperable and efficient financial infrastructure...

As seen in various forms here: https://ethereum.org/en/dapps/

I can only guess that you are not familiar with the technical jargon.

Your pleading strikes me as potentially disingenuous, but I will speak earnestly in spite of that.

You will or (will not) be a "crypto fan" after you've absorbed enough technical literature to make your own judgement about what is happening. If you have the time, I recommend starting with the Bitcoin and Ethereum whitepapers.

Re: Ethereum Isn't Fun Anymore

#570

Post by ClumsyPilot »

louwrentius wrote: post #562
ClumsyPilot wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you point to a legitimate problem that "whatsapp" solved that could not be solved with existing tools? Between SMS, MMS, 'normal' calls and Skype, whatsapp added nothing technically new to the world.

Whatsapp was cross platform and free.

Skype was cross-platform and free too. Also, we are talking technology, their pricing strategy is a different problem.
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