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Vertical farming does not save space

lowtechmagazine.com

461–464 of 464 posts

Re: Vertical farming does not save space

#461

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you simply impose a carbon tax, private enterprise will just go and build solar. Depends on how high the carbon tax is. Put it at a high enough rate that the country needs to go 100% carbon-free and people will build nuclear because that's the only solution (besides geographically limited things like geothermal and hydro) that can feasibly bring carbon emissions to zero. Renewables are cheap when going from a mo…

I think you're still missing what I'm saying. Yes, running a grid 100% on renewables is probably extremely difficult. Yes, nuclear may be the optimal way forward today. But I still think the most likely outcome is the renewable grid anyway. Why? Because there's no "we". There's no central planning. What there is is a bunch of self-interested parties that don't care about the entirety of the problem. Everybody will go…

> The powerplant building company cares nothing about the economics of keeping the country powered 24/7, they care about the economics of building their plant. If their business model works okay while selling nothing at night, then it works, and that's that

It doesn't work like that.

Contrary to your repeated insistence that there is no central planning, there is indeed extensive government planning in electrical grids. You can't just say "we'll only give you power during X hours of the day" to your customers. Likewise, you can't just tell customers who don't live near a dam that they won't be getting electricity when it isn't windy.

Wholesalers can do this, because they sell to other grid companies who actually sell to consumers. But no, if we have solar and wind and these sources aren't producing enough electricity then they have to burn gas and pay the carbon taxes. And if the carbon taxes are high enough, it's less expensive to build nuclear plants that emit no carbon and don't suffer from intermittency.

Re: Vertical farming does not save space

#462

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have fusion making consistent and significant gains right now.

We have wind and solar making even faster gains, and being real, right now as well.

Sure, but solar won't be enough to power us forever, and doesn't scale like fusion eventually will.

We will have energy needs orders of magnitudes more than we do right now within the next 20 years. I'm all for solar, but fusion will be necessary just in terms of dealing with climate change and the energy needs that alone will bring with it. Carbon sequestration, water desalination, etc... are all going to need serious energy behind them and will be knocking on humanity's door before the 2050s.

Re: Vertical farming does not save space

#463

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have fusion making consistent and significant gains right now.

So what is the plan for the nuclear waste (neutron capture from the hull activates it badly)?

The nuclear waste problem is drastically overstated and, like almost every other aspect of nuclear power, is generally fear-mongered and cherry-picked as some sort of "gotcha".

https://www.energy.gov/ne/articles/5-fast-facts-about-spent-...

From the article: "the U.S. has produced roughly 83,000 metrics tons of used fuel since the 1950s—and all of it could fit on a single football field at a depth of less than 10 yards."

I'd be more comfortable with a nuclear waste storage facility in my area than I would be with a coal power plant polluting the same given area.

Re: Vertical farming does not save space

#464

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My thoughts: If a crop is easy to grow, that means it’s able to handle: 1. Variable sunlight conditions; 2. Variable water conditions; 3. Handle bugs, viruses; and 4. Variable climate conditions. Low yield crops are problematic because they cannot handle variability. Using an indoor facility is equally expensive if you program the conditions to be variable or to be relatively strict. Additionally, a low yield crop is…

> Low yield crops are problematic because they cannot handle variability. Is this generally the cause for their lower yields? I would assume they just aren’t genetically programmed to grow as much (useful stuff, at least).

Oh, yeah, I'm sure that is also a problem. I don't think vertical farming can really help enough with that problem.

Vertical farming can definitely help problems like: https://extension.umd.edu/hgic/topics/low-yields-undersized-...

And most specifically, for crops that are just plain picky: https://www.rliland.com/difficult-crops-grow/

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