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Ethereum Isn't Fun Anymore

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Re: Ethereum Isn't Fun Anymore

#491

Post by DennisP »

rank0 wrote: post #482
DennisP wrote: post #464

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The idea is that it's not a conversion, it's a loan. The collateral is held in a smart contract and when you pay off the loan you get it back. In much the same way, people take out loans on their stock portfolios, and they don't pay capital gains either.

Is there any definitive source on this? I get lots of conflicting information from my brief google search. Equities and Cryptocurrencies are not treated the same for tax purposes by the IRS. It seems like they are treated as property and do not qualify as a "fungible" asset like stock or USD.

I don't know and I haven't consulted a CPA, which is why I described it as an "idea" instead of a fact. I know technically how it works, but not how the IRS will view it.

But to my amateur mind, treating it as property doesn't seem like a problem for this view. If you get a loan from a pawn shop, you're not selling them your property, you're just putting it up for collateral while you pay back the loan.

Re: Ethereum Isn't Fun Anymore

#492

Post by jlokier »

mcherm wrote: post #335
jlokier wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> First off, there have been many implementations of various forms of secret ballots on Ethereum using zero knowledge proofs. Mix and match your feature set of who can verify what and when, and there's a zero knowledge scheme that can do it. Yes, no problem with that. But the GP was arguing that it's better if ballots are not secret. I think it's a common misconception that if only all votes were open they would be m…

I'm a Judge of Elections in Pennsylvania, USA. You write: > If people choose to announce their party affiliation, that's something else. In PA (as in most states) one's party affiliation is public by law. In PA it's important because one can only vote in the primary for the party one is registered as a member of. (Voters who do not register an affiliation or are affiliated with a third party simply aren't allowed to…

I must admit, the notion of being "in" a party in a way an employer can easily check, or party affiliation that is legally registered, is outside my experience. By affiliation I meant only the party a person tells other people they support, in a non-binding social sense. I'm not in the USA.

I agree, where affiliation with a party has greater meaning and consequences, and is practically required for access to ordinary local services, the secret ballot is even more important.

That neighbourhood is a great example.

I'm disappointed, really, that in 21st century USA those people are still disenfranchised by local politics from voting in the primary of the party they actually support. But presumably there are good reasons for legal registration.

Re: Ethereum Isn't Fun Anymore

#493

Post by la_fayette »

chowells wrote: post #448
chaostheory wrote: post #404

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm going to agree https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=599852 The only surprise is that HN is still a terrible place to discuss crypto. Not many posters or commenters seem to have much knowledge, which is strange for HN

Maybe somehow they simultaneously have plenty of knowledge and don't agree with you. So in the spirit of education - what amazing things are there about ethereum or Bitcoin that will change my mind about their intrinsic value that I don't already know? (My current opinion is that the intrinsic value of PoW systems is negative due to low actual utility and very high cost.)

That is just boring...

Re: Ethereum Isn't Fun Anymore

#494

Post by loceng »

toss1 wrote: post #481
loceng wrote: post #424

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you know if they list the price of storing/accessing 1 GB on Filecoin compared to say AWS? It's obvious that people who own Bitcoin would want to use the system in order to show usefulness, demand, however I'm wondering if there's any use of people who aren't financially incentivized (like early adopters who have the most to gain).

Good question, but IDK. Current price is around $37/Filecoin, falling from $45 earlier in the week, but I have no idea what one Filecoin buys in terms of storage. Let me know if you find out more, and I'll do the same

Will do. It's always been odd to me that that is never listed prominently - as price is always the main competitive factor for anything, and even if it's 100x more expensive than similar solutions - at least people get a frame of reference to then see if the multiple is worth the value of storing in the Filecoin system; and with whatever risks may come with that.

Re: Ethereum Isn't Fun Anymore

#495

Post by Retric »

Karunamon wrote: post #457
ohgodplsno wrote: post #435

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The banking system _exists_. It's what powers all our daily transactions. It's what has been tried and tested for hundreds of years, and got regulated. Even if Ethereum or coin-of-the-week takes off, this existing banking system will not go away. What you're doing is a well known crypto-lover tactic to distract from the fact that cryptocurrencies are an ecological catastrophe. Meanwhile, we're burning coal to produce…

I strongly disagree with this loaded characterization of mining as "waste". Converting power into value is the opposite of waste, and that's not even addressing the network security that it provides. Mining provides useful work. If you don't like cryptocurrency, fine, but don't pretend that no value is being created or that no purpose exists. Waste would be an incandescent bulb that throws away the majority of its en…

The issue isn’t the useful product of light or a functional crypto system, the issue is the amount of waste heat produced by the light bulb or data center.

This should be obvious when you consider proof of work systems that generate less waste heat by using a memory bound rather than a computationally bound algorithm. They both operate on the principle of wealth destruction as all proof of work algorithms do, but you get different externalities.

Interestingly, if you found something really useful to do with the waste heat of crypto then the systems would become roughly equivalent.

PS: The idea of a memory bound algorithm is 1 million dollars of RAM consumes less energy than 1 million dollars of ASIC’s.

Re: Ethereum Isn't Fun Anymore

#496

Post by chaostheory »

chowells wrote: post #448
chaostheory wrote: post #404

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm going to agree https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=599852 The only surprise is that HN is still a terrible place to discuss crypto. Not many posters or commenters seem to have much knowledge, which is strange for HN

Maybe somehow they simultaneously have plenty of knowledge and don't agree with you. So in the spirit of education - what amazing things are there about ethereum or Bitcoin that will change my mind about their intrinsic value that I don't already know? (My current opinion is that the intrinsic value of PoW systems is negative due to low actual utility and very high cost.)

I like seeing things that have deep criticism of crypto and not just cheerleader blog posts. There are few on HN, the only notable ones aside from this post is the Tether fiasco. Most commenters did not seem very familiar with either subject vs others on HN. Maybe it's my imagination?

Re: Ethereum Isn't Fun Anymore

#497

Post by trident5000 »

humaniania wrote: post #403
rawtxapp wrote: post #395

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Borrowing, lending, decentralized exchanges, innovations like flash loans that are just not possible in current financial system. The sky is the limit in terms of innovations possible, it's literally some code running on the global computer that is Ethereum.

Not only are all those things possible (other than decentralized, because that has a high cost and no tangible benefit) in the normal banking system but there's apps for them already. And they are from regulated companies and you have legal protections.

Maybe people are tired of getting an anal probe just to open an account and move money/ complete financial transactions today?

Re: Ethereum Isn't Fun Anymore

#498

Post by rprasad »

bookmarkable wrote: post #443
Traubenfuchs wrote: post #56

Building something useful on something that is primarily used as highly volatile financial speculation instrument always rubbed me the wrong way. The whole crypto scene is just about making quick dough with a technology, that for some reason remains hyped through and wrapped in mysticism. Face it, there is no sexy killer app for the masses. Wait. There is one: Crypto trading to... make quick dough. And the cryptonerd…

This is really short sighted thinking. The web had no "killer app" in the first 10+ years. It was obscure technology with thousands of naysayers laughing at us "web nerds" because we thought it would change everything. Cryptocurrency is very young. While its hard to say if BTC or ETH or something yet to be invented will be part of the digital money future, it is absolutely reasonable to expect this technology will ha…

The web was officially launched in 1990. The web's killer app was information exchange, and it was used for that purpose even before the web existed; see for example Compuserve, AOL, Usenet, the academic webs between universities that predated the "Internet."

Amazon launched in 1994. Ebay 1995. Netflix 1997. Google 1998.

In contrast, 10+ years on, and cryptocurrency still hasn't demonstrated a compelling use case beyond money laundering and collecting ransom payments. If anything, the one thing crytocurrency has demonstrated is how flexible and resilient our existing old school financial system is.

Re: Ethereum Isn't Fun Anymore

#499

Post by trident5000 »

samvher wrote: post #409
lazzlazzlazz wrote: post #375

The Hacker News community has long been anti-crypto, and as someone deeply involved in the space, these long threads of complaints and diatribes are difficult to handle. Everyone is missing so much context. Ethereum gas prices are astronomical because there's unprecedented demand to use the network: NFT art and collectibles are exploding (NBA TopShot, Foundation, SuperRare, Rarible, OpenSea, etc.) at the same time De…

I feel like the general tendency on HN (and my personal feeling about the subject) is one of interest in the tech and applications, but a feeling that the hype is bigger than the truth. The ideas that Ethereum is innovative, that there are lots of possibilities in cryptocurrencies/blockchain, that at the moment the scene has major environmental issues, and that the current high valuations are unjustified, to my mind…

Blockchain dapps can potentially threaten HN jobs so its not exactly a hit on here.

Re: Ethereum Isn't Fun Anymore

#500

Post by ChainOfFools »

nostrademons wrote: post #483
dorkwood wrote: post #474

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The naysayers who think this is all for a quick buck are missing the pattern and listening too much to the (admittedly, insanely loud and annoying) shills. I'm part of a community that's currently being overtaken by the crypto art craze, and I'm still convinced it's "all for a quick buck". The crypto art economy seems to be driven by "collectors" who will drop thousands of dollars on anyone who can get them more ex…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veblen_good A lot of people buy art not because they like looking at it, but because they want everyone to know that they have lots of money to drop on worthless art purchases. This motivation is reinforced if a.) everybody knows how much money they're dropping on art purchases and b.) the price keeps going up, yet they still win the bid. They want the price to go up, since a higher pric…

How does anyone know that they aren't already connected to the seller, and just passing 10,000 dollars from one wallet address they own, to another they also own, to create the appearance of a sale?

You get the same veblen bragging rights, the artist (assuming they are not simply your own alter ego) gets a visibility boost and nobody is going to be motivated enough to go digging around the custody trail to prove this was a sham.

This sleight of hand (in a slightly modified form) is standard operating procedure for inflating the value of ICO offerings (and by extension, crypto as a whole); I don't see why people wouldn't do it for NFTs, with the same motivations at work.

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