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Uighurs: 'Credible case' China carrying out genocide

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Re: Uighurs: 'Credible case' China carrying out genocide

#201

Post by unityByFreedom »

Clewza313 wrote: post #99
underseacables wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You cannot trust anything reported out of China, absolutely nothing. I do not doubt that there are people being slaughtered and massacred as I write, but anything reported out of China must be taken deeply suspicious, especially if it comes from the government. The Chinese government is the single greatest threat to freedom, and human rights this world has ever seen.

You don't need to trust anybody's reporting, you can go browse Weibo or Toutiao or Douyin and go see for yourself what regular Chinese people are saying all across China right now. Sure, anything overly political is (self-)censored and there's some actual paid wumao shills in there, but day-to-day stuff like grumbling about local government incompetence is widespread. Here's the Xinjiang hashtag, go nuts: https://m.w…

Self censorship is huge. I admire dissidents living under authoritarian regimes who are brave enough to share their stories, whether they remain there or escape.

Re: Uighurs: 'Credible case' China carrying out genocide

#202

Post by archibaldJ »

enriquto wrote: post #121
seattle_spring wrote: post #22

I work with a lot of folks from China and they are bending over backwards trying to defend the CCP. Their argument almost always boils down to "I know people who live in Xinjiang and they say it's not that bad." Equivalent to someone using their one black friend as proof that they can't possibly be racist.

> I work with a lot of folks from China and they (...) What you say represents about 50% of Chinese researchers in my lab. Those that immediately return to their country after the PhD and you never hear from them again. The other 50% are the complete opposite: they cannot wait to get their family out of the country and never look back, explaining that the country is ruled by a bunch of crazy psycopaths. Curiously eno…

It's ultimiately a matter of dependency i.e. econmically well-off Chinese people who have dependencies with CCP (e.g. official party member (6.6% of the population), or owning a family business that interfaces with CCP, even if unofficially, etc), V.S. well-off Chinese with little or no dependencies.

To be where they are now (outside of China receiving education, etc), the former group (or their parents/relatives) fought hard to get benefits from their relationship with CCP, while the later group (or their parents/relatives) fought hard to find a path out of this CCP madness.

And thus the contrast.

My grandfather was a minister and a proud CCP member. But he was the type who believes in doing the moral things and never took bribe. He worked crazy hours and get paid penauts. Most of my relatives saw him as foolish because he basically didn't fight to "get benefits from his relationship with CCP" and stayed poor for all his life. And most of his colleagues and superordinates don't like him because you can't help one another to climb the rank (or generate wealth) like this.

Re: Uighurs: 'Credible case' China carrying out genocide

#203

Post by yange »

hiq wrote: post #177
yange wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm Chinese. Many languages and expressions in this thread not only detests me but also represent the very opposite of western critical thinking. I appreciate the western style of logical thinking. You are being taught in schools how to tell the truth and bust lies, to criticize, to doubt, to ask questions no one dares to ask. You are taught definitions of fallacies, the art of debate, the wisdom of introspection. I…

> But you have to understand it's much more difficult to prove something you didn't do instead of something you did Do you think the authorities could be more transparent about what is happening in these regions?

That would only feed the western media what they want, so no, I don't expect more details from the government. It's almost the de-facto solution that China use to address foreign publicity -- no comment.

But that doesn't mean they will ignore the problem, but on the contrary, they always take care the situation swiftly and always show off their results one way or the other. If you know China enough you should be familiar with how they operate.

What matters is they are giving all the resources to the people in the camp, and implementing strict regulation and accountability for all the activities in the camp, to make sure everything is running humanely and lawfully.

Re: Uighurs: 'Credible case' China carrying out genocide

#205

Post by supergirl »

> A legal opinion is the professional judgement of a respected QC - an independent expert in their field - who assesses the evidence and the law and comes to a conclusion. It does not have a legal standing, like a court judgement, but can be used as a basis for legal action.

> This opinion was commissioned - but not paid for - by the Global Legal Action Network, a human rights campaign group that focuses on cross-border legal issues, and the World Uighur Congress and the Uighur Human Rights Project.

Re: Uighurs: 'Credible case' China carrying out genocide

#207

Post by Fricken »

UK-Al05 wrote: post #186
BelenusMordred wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please try take a moment to step in someone else's shoes and engage with what they are saying before calling their comments "propaganda" . It's not good faith behaviour.

It's very odd, when there's countless witnesses, satalite imagery, press teams finding these places, and the CCP even admitting to education camps that there are people going "it's not so bad" and defending CCP. Even if the camps are just "re-education camps", thats still really bad.

How do you respond to islamic extremism in your country? Attacks in Tieneman square used to be bad before it was the Uyghurs doing it. Islamic terrorism used to be bad, before it was the Uyghurs doing it. China has a responsibility to deal with this problem, and if there a nice, gentle way to deal with it, I can't think of what it might be.

Re: Uighurs: 'Credible case' China carrying out genocide

#208

Post by nlitened »

aaron695 wrote: post #153

[flagged]

> I'm happy to go to war with China, I think it'll be fun to watch. It's affects on me will only be a small percentage drop in assets, so whatever.

Dude, going to war does not mean watching happily at assets' prices dropping. Going to war means actual people dying. And if you'd happily "go to war" with China, I hope it means you're happy to become (and make your family become) among the first people to die at this war - before politicians sign a treaty and revert back to status quo.

Re: Uighurs: 'Credible case' China carrying out genocide

#209

Post by Fricken »

hh3k0 wrote: post #190
aaron695 wrote: post #153

[flagged]

> No, China is not committing genocide. Yes, they are: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_stages_of_genocide > Why do we have to jump to genocide. Because that is the term for what they do. The refusal to call it genocide is like putting lipstick on a pig; in the end it's still a pig.

Interesting. According to that America is at stage 8 of 10 in it's Genocide of China.

Re: Uighurs: 'Credible case' China carrying out genocide

#210

Post by throwaway1997 »

yange wrote: post #139
seattle_spring wrote: post #22

I work with a lot of folks from China and they are bending over backwards trying to defend the CCP. Their argument almost always boils down to "I know people who live in Xinjiang and they say it's not that bad." Equivalent to someone using their one black friend as proof that they can't possibly be racist.

I'm Chinese. Many languages and expressions in this thread not only detests me but also represent the very opposite of western critical thinking. I appreciate the western style of logical thinking. You are being taught in schools how to tell the truth and bust lies, to criticize, to doubt, to ask questions no one dares to ask. You are taught definitions of fallacies, the art of debate, the wisdom of introspection. I…

This becomes part of the problem. China has tried to merge the concept of the country, the people and the government into one homogeneous thing. Now any criticism of the regime is considered "racist"?
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